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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
Dd 12 gets into a rage with any discipline, adhd on meds
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 5:10 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
As an intro, please only respond if you have a child with similar issues. This is so far from a typical situation and typical parenting skills don't work here. I have quite a few other children kah for whom typical style discipline does work, and I know how to be firm and set limits. Again, no random advice please, only respond if you have personal experience with a child like this.

So......dd 12 has been very challenging always, very intense, strong emotions, huuuuge tantrums as toddler, etc. Fast forward to now, she has been diagnosed with adhd and is on guanfacine and ritalin. Things are bh soooo much better but still very very difficult.
One major issue is that she doesn't tolerate any form of discipline. It puts her into a rage and she can trash the house, hurt herself, hurt others, etc etc....
Obviously we have to say no sometimes, but always try to say it in a gentle way. Since she started on the guanfacine, a regular no will not send her into a rage usually bh.
But...tonight she did something very wrong and I had to be firm with her. She unlocked (using her fingernail) and opened the door when another sibling was in the bathroom. She knew the other child was there and was annoyed they weren't coming out and warned them if they don't come out in 10 seconds she will go in, and she did. (I only hear about this after from the sibling)
This is a strict rule in the house and everyone has been strongly warned that they are never allowed to do this.
So I was very firm with her and told her that it's never allowed and there will be a serious consequence. I didn't yell but I spoke firmly.
Well, now she got so so mad she is throwing everything in her room, breaking things, she tried opening the window to throw things out but I stopped her. I tried talking to her and she just yells calling me stupid etc, my husband tried talking to her and she just yells at him to go away and throws things at him....
It's so so so so hard... Her therapist doesn't have any real advice for when she gets like this.
Does anyone else have a situation like this? what do you do?
Eventually we get through it, but it's really really difficult and affects everyone.

I do have a child like this. I'm at work but two short thoughts:
1. It sounds like she might've been overloaded/ overwhelmed and needed the bathroom super-badly. Of course that doesn't excuse the behavior, but maybe the two of you can find a solution for next time she needs the bathroom like that. Work with her on identifying how her body felt at that moment and possibly on expressing it in words: "I have to pee really badly and my entire lower body hurts, I'm going to explode if I have to wait any longer, please hurry up because it's taking all my energy to keep calm right now." It's not going to be perfect but it conveys the sense of emergency.

2. By the time you went to talk to her that boat had already sailed. She was way too overwhelmed to be able to talk.

3. Maybe next time she can identify whatever she needs before it becomes urgent. Also, either hold her in a tight hug or just leave her alone to calm down.

4. With our kid what really helped was DH and I standing side by side speaking in the same voice and saying the same things. "You will not throw things at us. You will not throw things at us. You will not break objects. You will not break objects. You will not speak to us that way. You will not speak to us that way." Something about the united front helps them gain control of themselves.

Good luck, it's not easy.
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amother
Lotus


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 5:29 am
Heart
as a mom with a very difficult child I support you. It is really hard.
My son has been diagnosed with pandas and sometimes I think he has it and sometimes I think its just him. over the years he has gotten way better but its HARD
the only therapist and shita that has helped us was the Ayeka approach. Not sure if people are using it in America yet but it literally saved my family.
annon because I speak about this a lot in real life.
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amother
Hunter


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 4:03 pm
@OP

I totally understand you been dealing this with my DS for a while now.

What actually was the cause of him being an aggressive moody teenager was the RITILAN!

Do some research youll see its a side affect.


He literally would get aggressive, out of control outbursts. moody and MAD.

We have recently stopped all stimulants and started (along with the anti anxiety, and gaunfacine) a new drug called Qelbree and seen amazing results so far. When dosage was too high also got angry so be careful with that.
Its a new FDA approved non stimulant and my son said "it makes me feel like I dont need medication" https://www.qelbree.com/



I recommend this facebook group also if you're on it as its more expansive in support from other moms in your (our) situation) https://www.facebook.com/group.....port/

happy to discuss more if you want
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:10 pm
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
I do have a child like this. I'm at work but two short thoughts:
1. It sounds like she might've been overloaded/ overwhelmed and needed the bathroom super-badly. Of course that doesn't excuse the behavior, but maybe the two of you can find a solution for next time she needs the bathroom like that. Work with her on identifying how her body felt at that moment and possibly on expressing it in words: "I have to pee really badly and my entire lower body hurts, I'm going to explode if I have to wait any longer, please hurry up because it's taking all my energy to keep calm right now." It's not going to be perfect but it conveys the sense of emergency.


Thank you for your post and understanding, and to all of you who have responded.

She had a nail half off and wanted to go clip it off. She was impatient and didn't want to wait till sibling came out. in general, she is still pretty self-centered.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:12 pm
amother [ Lotus ] wrote:
Heart
as a mom with a very difficult child I support you. It is really hard.
My son has been diagnosed with pandas and sometimes I think he has it and sometimes I think its just him. over the years he has gotten way better but its HARD
the only therapist and shita that has helped us was the Ayeka approach. Not sure if people are using it in America yet but it literally saved my family.
annon because I speak about this a lot in real life.


never heard of Ayeka. can you give more info? Thank you!
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:15 pm
amother [ Hunter ] wrote:
@OP

I totally understand you been dealing this with my DS for a while now.

What actually was the cause of him being an aggressive moody teenager was the RITILAN!

Do some research youll see its a side affect.


He literally would get aggressive, out of control outbursts. moody and MAD.

We have recently stopped all stimulants and started (along with the anti anxiety, and gaunfacine) a new drug called Qelbree and seen amazing results so far. When dosage was too high also got angry so be careful with that.
Its a new FDA approved non stimulant and my son said "it makes me feel like I dont need medication" https://www.qelbree.com/



I recommend this facebook group also if you're on it as its more expansive in support from other moms in your (our) situation) https://www.facebook.com/group.....port/

happy to discuss more if you want


Interesting. So she doesn't do well on higher doses of ritalin, or on the long acting. But when she's on the short acting 10 mg, it's night and day difference. This incident actually occurred in the evening when she was gettting ready for bed and not on the ritalin.

In retrospect, I probably should have not even brought it up while she wasn't on the ritalin. Though I felt that I had to because it was such a red line and also for the sake of the sibling who was walked in on.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:18 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Interesting. So she doesn't do well on higher doses of ritalin, or on the long acting. But when she's on the short acting 10 mg, it's night and day difference. This incident actually occurred in the evening when she was gettting ready for bed and not on the ritalin.

In retrospect, I probably should have not even brought it up while she wasn't on the ritalin. Though I felt that I had to because it was such a red line and also for the sake of the sibling who was walked in on.


Did you discuss if the consequence was appropriate with her therapist given her issues? Was it a sister of brother she walked in on?
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:19 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Did you discuss if the consequence was appropriate with her therapist given her issues? Was it a sister of brother she walked in on?

She was upset that I was firm with her, had not given consequence at that point.
It was a sister.
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amother
Lotus


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 3:55 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
never heard of Ayeka. can you give more info? Thank you!


https://www.ayeka-merkaz.com/w.....1.pdf


here is some info
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amother
Stoneblue


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 7:17 am
amother [ Whitesmoke ] wrote:
I also live in five towns. Pls post name of doc you used who you were happy with


Northwell behavioral has a whole group. I think whoever has the soonest appt. Even the NP's are terrific.
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amother
Catmint


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 7:25 am
Sometimes the meds themselves can cause aggressive behaviors or rage. Just something to keep in mind. People react differently to the same meds.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 10:43 am
amother [ Catmint ] wrote:
Sometimes the meds themselves can cause aggressive behaviors or rage. Just something to keep in mind. People react differently to the same meds.


Thanks but not the case here. we've seen a 90-95% decrease since starting the meds bh...
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 10:50 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you for your post and understanding, and to all of you who have responded.

She had a nail half off and wanted to go clip it off. She was impatient and didn't want to wait till sibling came out. in general, she is still pretty self-centered.

Ouuuch. Okay. Can you leave nail clippers in the kitchen or living room?

It might be because she is self-centered but as someone who is SPD herself I can definitely understand that this would be a total sensory overwhelm for her. It sometimes hurts, is always uncomfortable, and in general gives you this full-body scratchy-nail-on-the-blackboard sensation ALL OVER until the nail comes off. So every minute is torture. (That's for me. You can check with your DD if it applies to her as well. Maybe she doesn't have that, maybe the sensations are different for her. I'm explaining in detail in hopes it will shed light on what's happening with your DD.) I am in my 30s and a mother of several and a senior figure in my company, and in cases like this I am very very hard-pressed to keep calm until I can cut the nail.

Another option (what I do) is ask the person in the bathroom (if it is DH or someone similarly large) to hand me the clippers. If it is someone small I ask to come in and clip my nail, if they are in the shower I check that they are okay with it and behind the curtain. Etc.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 10:53 am
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
Ouuuch. Okay. Can you leave nail clippers in the kitchen or living room?

It might be because she is self-centered but as someone who is SPD herself I can definitely understand that this would be a total sensory overwhelm for her. It sometimes hurts, is always uncomfortable, and in general gives you this full-body scratchy-nail-on-the-blackboard sensation ALL OVER until the nail comes off. So every minute is torture. (That's for me. You can check with your DD if it applies to her as well. Maybe she doesn't have that, maybe the sensations are different for her. I'm explaining in detail in hopes it will shed light on what's happening with your DD.) I am in my 30s and a mother of several and a senior figure in my company, and in cases like this I am very very hard-pressed to keep calm until I can cut the nail.

Another option (what I do) is ask the person in the bathroom (if it is DH or someone similarly large) to hand me the clippers. If it is someone small I ask to come in and clip my nail, if they are in the shower I check that they are okay with it and behind the curtain. Etc.


Lol, this is the first time she had this issue with a nail...never came up before. if it was an ongoing issue I would leave nail clippers in alternate places.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 10:57 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Lol, this is the first time she had this issue with a nail...never came up before. if it was an ongoing issue I would leave nail clippers in alternate places.

Still. Ask her. It's not like nails rip in half every day. It could also be that it was late at night, her stomach was hurting, etc. and the combination of that and the nail sent her over the edge. Or just that this particular nail was worse than ever before, or happened exactly when someone was in the bathroom.

You asked for insight. Tongue Out

The idea (what we do with our similarly challenged child) is analyze the situation to find the trigger. In a non-judgmental way. We sit and figure out what happened. I think that might help your DD also.

Also if it has never happened with a nail before why would you assume the reason it happened is that she is self-centered? Obviously she is usually not self-centered enough to barge in on someone because of a split nail. So why should she be this time? It would seem that there is more to the story than simple impatience and selfishness, no?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 11:11 am
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
Still. Ask her. It's not like nails rip in half every day. It could also be that it was late at night, her stomach was hurting, etc. and the combination of that and the nail sent her over the edge. Or just that this particular nail was worse than ever before, or happened exactly when someone was in the bathroom.

You asked for insight. Tongue Out


I was responding to suggestion to keep nail clippers in kitchen etc, this was a one time issue with nail. She had other options, she could have come to me. I actually do have nail clippers in my room. But she didn't want to go downstairs.

amother [ Coral ] wrote:
The idea (what we do with our similarly challenged child) is analyze the situation to find the trigger. In a non-judgmental way. We sit and figure out what happened. I think that might help your DD also.

Also if it has never happened with a nail before why would you assume the reason it happened is that she is self-centered? Obviously she is usually not self-centered enough to barge in on someone because of a split nail. So why should she be this time? It would seem that there is more to the story than simple impatience and selfishness, no?


In general she is self centered. Nails are not an issue for her in general.
I agree about analyzing for triggers, but this was a one time issue with nail. Self centeredness is a general issue which manifests in other ways.
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amother
Peachpuff


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 11:13 am
I agree that what’s coming off as self centered ness is probably something else underlying. These kids with brain dysfunctions are all in survival mode, their distress is so real and so big to them, it’s not even reasonable for them to see past it.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 11:16 am
amother [ Peachpuff ] wrote:
I agree that what’s coming off as self centered ness is probably something else underlying. These kids with brain dysfunctions are all in survival mode, their distress is so real and so big to them, it’s not even reasonable for them to see past it.


Agree with that point.
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amother
Peachpuff


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 1:12 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Agree with that point.
And it’s probably the same survival mode that makes her not be able to tolerate the slightest whiff of criticism.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jul 08 2021, 1:19 pm
amother [ Peachpuff ] wrote:
And it’s probably the same survival mode that makes her not be able to tolerate the slightest whiff of criticism.


Also she has always been extreeeeeemely sensitive. it has definitely gotten a lot better though.
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