No more unvaccinated

amother

Bronze

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:12 am

amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:

I'm sorry you don't accept my sources, all of which are reliable.

I'm sure in that case that you can understand that Imamother Bronze's unsupported claims of covid cases spiraling out of control among vaccinated people in the UK.

No. Quotes from individuals and tweets are not reliable.

But since many people apparently do rely on these types of non-data claims, this probably explains the disconnect.

Don't trust me, look at the weekly graphs. England had ~~27,100~~ 28,334 new cases in the past week. Compare with Italy which does not have nearly the same percentage vaccinated, and whose curve closely mirrored England's during the last surge, only 733 cases in the last 7 days.

amother

Lightgreen

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:14 am

amother [ Eggplant ] wrote:

You realize the reason that these variants even have the opportunity to occur, is because of how many people are still unvaccinated?
The more vaccinated, the less chances for mutations and variants.
The less people vaccinate, the more breeding grounds for mutations.
Thanks for doing your part.

Many immunologists say that it's the vaccine that leads to new variants and mutations as the virus needs to now mutate to infect people.

Also, if the vaccine was so effective than so many people who were vaccinated should not be able to get sick. Really has nothing to do with the unvsccinated people.

pause

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:18 am

I propose a game called "Aim the Blame" where blame for sickness is always thrust onto someone else. In each scenario we just need to find the right person to "Claim the Blame". The winner is the one who has the most claims against them.

March 2020 - blame Purim partygoers who didn't take the news from China seriously
April 2020 - blame the arrangers or the attenders of Mertz's funeral
May - June 2020 - blame the unmasked
July - August 2020 - blame the summer campers
September - November 2020 - blame the red-zoned Jews, Jewish schools, and Jewish stores
December 2020 - January 2021 - blame Trump
February 2021 - present - blame the unvaccinated

Anyone else want to continue playing?

ruchnius

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:39 am

Bs"d
Please , if you want to know data and latest medical news about covid, go to the youtube channel called: Dr. John Campbell. He surfs the web every day, and puts up the latest data and latest research. There is a new variant they are beginning to worry about , from Peru, by the way.

Amarante

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:47 am

What is absolutely certain is that ALL the vaccinations do a remarkable job of preventing serious illness or death. Those hospitalized are almost exclusively those who have received no vaccination.

This is an excellent article explaining why the statistics on rates of infection among vaccinated are still a bit unknown and that you can't go by the 'raw" data.

I still don't understand how anyone can look at the rates of death and serious disease as being disproportionately among those who aren't vaccinated and choose not to get vaccinated. For males there now appears to be a risk of erectile dysfunction among COVID survivors

As the Delta variant sweeps the world, researchers are tracking how well vaccines protect against it — and getting different answers.

In Britain, researchers reported in May that two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine had an effectiveness of 88 percent protecting against symptomatic disease from Delta. A June study from Scotland concluded that the vaccine was 79 percent effective against the variant. On Saturday, a team of researchers in Canada pegged its effectiveness at 87 percent.

And on Monday, Israel’s Ministry of Health announced that the effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 64 percent against all coronavirus infections, down from about 95 percent in May, before the Delta variant began its climb to near-total dominance in Israel.

Although the range of these numbers may seem confusing, vaccine experts say it should be expected, because it’s hard for a single study to accurately pinpoint the effectiveness of a vaccine.

“We just have to take everything together as little pieces of a puzzle, and not put too much weight on any one number,” said Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at Emory University.

In clinical trials, it’s (relatively) easy to measure how well vaccines work. Researchers randomly assign thousands of volunteers to get either a vaccine or a placebo. If the vaccinated group has a lower risk of getting sick, scientists can be confident that it’s the vaccine that protected them.

But once vaccines hit the real world, it becomes much harder to measure their effectiveness. Scientists can no longer control who receives a vaccine and who does not. If they compare a group of vaccinated people with a group of unvaccinated people, other differences between the groups could influence their risks of getting sick.

It’s possible, for example, that people who choose not to get vaccinated may be more likely to put themselves in situations where they could get exposed to the virus. On the other hand, older people may be more likely to be vaccinated but also have a harder time fending off an aggressive variant. Or an outbreak may hit part of a country where most people are vaccinated, leaving under-vaccinated regions unharmed.

One way to rule out these alternative explanations is to compare each vaccinated person in a study with a counterpart who did not get the vaccine. Researchers often go to great lengths to find an unvaccinated match, looking for people who are of a similar age and health. They can even match people within the same neighborhood.

“It takes a huge effort,” said Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Health.

For its new study, Israel’s Ministry of Health did not go to such great lengths to rule out other factors. “I am afraid that the current Israeli MoH analysis cannot be used to safely assess it, one way or another,” Uri Shalit, a senior lecturer at the Technion — Israel Institute of Technology, wrote on Twitter.

Israel’s numbers could also be different because of who is getting tested. Much of the country is vaccinated. During local bursts of new infections, the government requires testing for anyone — symptoms or not — who came into contact with a person diagnosed with Covid-19. In other countries, it’s more common for people to get tested because they’re already feeling sick. This could mean that Israel is spotting more asymptomatic cases in vaccinated people than other places are, bringing their reported effectiveness rate down.

Fortunately, all the studies so far agree that most Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at keeping people out of the hospital and have generally protected against the Delta variant. Israel’s Ministry of Health estimated that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is about 93 percent effective in preventing serious illness and hospitalization.

“Their overall implications are consistent: that protection against severe disease remains very high,” said Naor Bar-Zeev, an associate professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Because effectiveness studies are so tricky, it will take more work to determine how big a threat Delta poses to vaccines. Dr. Lipsitch said that studies from more countries would be required.

“If there are five studies with one outcome and one study with another, I think one can conclude that the five are probably more likely to be correct than the one,” Dr. Lipsitch said.

#BestBubby

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:53 am

If EARLY treatment using Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) or Ivermectin was not discouraged / forbidden by corrupt government, there would be hardly anyone hospialized or dying from Covid.

The vaccine is unnecessary and dangerous.

GLUE

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 11:45 am

amother [ Eggplant ] wrote:

What about influenza? People vaccinate for it every year and mutations are always happening.

amother

DarkKhaki

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 5:36 pm

GLUE wrote:

What about influenza? People vaccinate for it every year and mutations are always happening.

What about influenza? People weren't vaccinating for it for centuries, and mutations were always happening.

amother

Hyssop

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 9:31 pm

I work at Touro College. They are now mandating that all their employees be vaccinated. I can't afford to lose my job, so I just got my first dose. As an aside, there are lots of vacancies at Touro now.

GLUE

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 9:43 pm

amother [ DarkKhaki ] wrote:

What about influenza? People weren't vaccinating for it for centuries, and mutations were always happening.

I was responding to Eggplant who felt that if everyone got the vaccine their would be no more mutations. I feel differently

southernbubby

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:09 pm

GLUE wrote:

I was responding to Eggplant who felt that if everyone got the vaccine their would be no more mutations. I feel differently

It would mutate within immune suppressed people. Apparently common medications can suppress the immune system.

southernbubby

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:15 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I agree that those drugs should be allowed but injections put the government in the driver's seat while it's up to the patient, that nobody trusts, to go to the doctor and take his prescription. Basically it's saying that people will not be on top of it.