Are you a person or Jew first?

ibelongtosomebody

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:47 pm

simba wrote:

This. You are a person that is Jewish.
Jewish describes who you are as a person.
If you were not a person you couldn't be Jewish.

There is no one and nothing that is Jewish that is not a person.

Simba, what I meant is: Jewish is not an adjective. It’s an essence.

RevitalizedMom

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 10:54 pm

Zehava wrote:

I’m human first
At the end of the day, in a zombie apocalypse, natural disaster, if I’m shipwrecked, stuck on a train, trapped in a fire, with a bunch of other people I don’t think our race, ethnicity, color, or religion will matter one bit. We all bleed red and breathe the same oxygen. At the core of our beings we all want the same things.
Yes I am tribalist too. In my day to day life I am proud to be a Jew. In times of crisis, like COVID has shown, I will align with my people.
But if I had to choose one or the other… I am a human being and that’s all.

At the end of the day, meaning “ultimately.” This insinuates that something comes before this.

We’re not talking about in a time of crisis which essence comes forth, but rather on an average day.

Would your answer change?

Zehava

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 11:36 pm

LeeR wrote:

On an average day I don’t need to choose.
If I have to choose I assume it’s due to a severe crisis.

iyar

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 11:37 pm

Zehava wrote:

We all bleed red and breathe the same oxygen. On a physical level I’m the same as anyone else and scientifically speaking I have a lot in common with a cat and a dog. My DNA is almost exactly the same as that of a chimpanzee. What makes me unique is the soul at the core of my being that elevates me above the confines of biological substance. The neshama inside me makes me much more than a member of homo sapiens. And the same goes for you Zehava.

Kiwi13

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 11:40 pm

Zehava wrote:

On an average day I don’t need to choose.
If I have to choose I assume it’s due to a severe crisis.

I don't think OP is asking you to choose, I read it more like which is your core identity - is Jewishness the core of your identity, or is it part of the whole of who you are? It's a question about how we each personally conceptualize our Jewish identity. At least, that's how I read it.

Zehava

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 11:45 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

In that case I think it’s part of the whole of who I am. I carry so many labels.
I’m a human
I’m a wife
I’m a mom
I’m a trauma survivor
And more

If someone asked you if you’re Jewish first or a mom first what would you say?

BokerTov

Wed, Jul 07 2021, 11:50 pm

Zehava wrote:

A Jewish mom, in that order. Definitely.

Zehava

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 12:00 am

BokerTov wrote:

A Jewish mom, in that order. Definitely.

I guess that makes me a Jewish person. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m a Jew before a person.
Like someone else said can’t be a Jew if you aren’t a person.

OOT

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 12:10 am

Interesting question... I’d have to say that I always would’ve identified primary as Jewish, but lately, I’d say more as a person.
As humanity in general struggles to make sense of the madness that is going on in the world these days, I see all of the world, Jewish or not,as G-d’s creations.
So in conclusion, I definitely identify strongly as a Jew, but lately have been relating more to my fellow human beings, regardless of religion.

chicco

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 12:36 am

The question as I understand it is:

is "Jewish" just another adjective like being a Yankee's fan, or a really good baker, or is it the umbrella that every other adjective falls under.

Judaism isn't a religion or a culture. It is truth. Whether or not we relate to the culture or the religion that comes with it, we are defined inherently by our Judaism. In fact, I don't even know that I would mention it, because it just is. Kind of like I wouldn't mention I'm human. Every single aspect of my life is through the filter of being, or relating to life as, a Jew.

Cheiny

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 12:40 am

lk1234 wrote:

In davening we say L'Olam Yehei Adam. I once heard a beautiful vort that L'Olam- at all times Yehei Adam - first and foremost be a mentch - a good human being. Then yerei shamayim - the yiddishkeit comes next and always baseiser - hidden, doing good inner work on yourself without the ra ra and other people knowing. If you are a good human being and yerei shamayim in hidden it will be come out begalui.

I don’t think that is the order of things. Being a good Jew will automatically make you a mentsh. Judaism comes first always.

Scotty

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 12:45 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Wow. Really?

Meaning, I won’t verbally mention it in the opening sentence when meeting a gentile along with my name, because of anti semitism and common sense.

But if there’s any question spoken or unspoken of whether I’m Jewish or not, I’ll proudly say I am!

Zehava

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 3:33 am

Cheiny wrote:

I don’t think that is the order of things. Being a good Jew will automatically make you a mentsh. Judaism comes first always.

If only that were true

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 3:47 am

simba wrote:

This. You are a person that is Jewish.
Jewish describes who you are as a person.
If you were not a person you couldn't be Jewish.

There is no one and nothing that is Jewish that is not a person.

This is such an interesting question. I agree with simba, just on a purely logical basis.

My dog will never be Jewish, even though she only eats kosher, has great middos, and rests on Shabbos.

A person can convert to Judaism. A Jew can be atheist (CVS). Then you can get into the whole "who is a Jew?" can of worms (which I am not touching with a 10 foot pole.)

This is a lot like the questions "Are you an American Israeli, or an Israeli American?" and "Are you a Jewish American, or an American Jew?" These are called "patriotism tests."

Any time we get distracted by either/or arguments, we lose sight of the fact that we are all complex people with unique backgrounds. As long as we are in galus, these questions will haunt us.

Siriusly?

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 7:01 am

shmosmom wrote:

I'm a person, I'm American, I'm Jewish, I'm pretty, I'm smart, I'm spontaneous.
The first is a noun, the rest are adjectives.

I am a Jew. That's a noun too...

OP, the two options in your post don't really present the sides properly- what do your name being Sarah and your hobbies of reading and baking have to do with your being a person? You're not comparing human-ness and Jewishness, but random descriptors and Jewishness.

Personally, I think being a Jew is my essence. But I do think that before one can focus on their Jewishness, they need to have their personal needs met. Someone struggling with mental or emotional health issues, addiction, abuse etc may have a harder time identifying with their Jewishness. There's a reason the Torah has rules about pikuach nefesh - saving a human life takes precedence over mitzvos.

zaq

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 9:27 pm

I'm going to be, for imamother, politically incorrect and, possibly, one of only a few fully honest posters. I'm a woman first. When I was born, I'm pretty sure the doctor announced "it's a girl" not "It's a Jewish, uh....girl." Having had male relatives and male neighbors, and zero nonJewish neighbors that I can recall in my earliest years, I was aware of being a girl long before I was aware of being a Jew. Are you born being aware of the air around you? Of course not; you have to be taught about it.

Both femaleness and Jewishness are aspects of who I am. Just as the elephant's tail, trunk, tusks, legs, ears, body and skin together make up the essence of elephant, and no one element conveys what it is to be an elephant, so, too, to say "woman" or to say "Jew" or even to say "Jewish woman" doesn't define me. I am many many things, and Jewish woman is two of them.

zaq

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 10:05 pm

liveandlove.ima wrote:

Judaism is what makes me a "person"

No, it isn't. It's what makes you the person you are. If you were a Hindu or Jain or Moslem or Communist, you'd still be a person.