Bringing a baby to a levaya

amother

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 2:48 am

Thoughts?
Have a levaya I should really attend but no1 to watch my 8 month old.
Can I bring her?

amother

Camellia

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 2:50 am

Inappropriate.

rivkam

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 3:07 am

Maybe just go to the shiva only. I feel like a baby in a levaya is quite distracting.

I remember taking my baby to a friend sitting shiva. My friend was so happy to have a baby to cuddle.

Zehava

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 3:35 am

rivkam wrote:

Maybe just go to the shiva only. I feel like a baby in a levaya is quite distracting.

I remember taking my baby to a friend sitting shiva. My friend was so happy to have a baby to cuddle.

She actually wasn’t allowed to cuddle your baby precisely because it makes a person happy

Zehava

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 3:37 am

I think it depends on whether you’re close family or how big the levayah is. I’ve brought a baby to a friends levayah. There were many people and stayed in the outside room with the carriage not in the chapel itself. There were many people in the outside room as well and other babies like mine.

Elfrida

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 5:28 am

If you do, stay on the edge of the crowd and beat a hasty retreat if the baby even begins to cry.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 5:57 am

Zehava wrote:

She actually wasn’t allowed to cuddle your baby precisely because it makes a person happy

Is there a specific halacha that mourners are not allowed to hold babies? I've never heard of this.

Perhaps a better word is that she felt "comforted" having a baby to cuddle.

We're not supposed to try and cheer someone up on purpose, but if the mourner becomes a little bit happier just because you are there, then you aren't doing anything wrong.

amother

Bellflower

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:45 am

I’ve done it in desperation but it was graveside, not in a chapel.

amother

Sunflower

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:46 am

rivkam wrote:

Maybe just go to the shiva only. I feel like a baby in a levaya is quite distracting.

I remember taking my baby to a friend sitting shiva. My friend was so happy to have a baby to cuddle.

It's assur for someone sitting shiva to pick up a baby let alone cuddle. Hopefully you won't go to any more shivas iyh because moshiach will be here, but just so people know this.

amother

Sunflower

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:48 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Yes, it's specifically prohibited.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:48 am

amother [ Sunflower ] wrote:

It's assur for someone sitting Shiva to pick up a baby let alone cuddle.

Source?

What if it's their own baby? Does it matter if it's a close relative's baby, or just a neighbor's?

Aylat

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:49 am

I have, to a family levaya. And other relatives with babies did as well.

Elfrida

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:53 am

My sister had a young baby who was exclusively nursing when we sat shiva. She held, fed, changed and soothed the baby as necessary. Sometimes the rest of us gave her a hand (except with the feeding!) Sometimes friends came and took the baby for a walk, to give us break. No one felt it was an ideal situation, but there wasn't much choice in the circumstances.

amother

Sunflower

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 6:55 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Source?

What if it's their own baby? Does it matter if it's a close relative's baby, or just a neighbor's?

Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah 391:1)
A basic Google search finds the following.
The Gemara in Moed Katan 26b quotes Rav Pappa:

“And Rav Pappa said: A Sage taught in Evel Rabbati: A mourner should not place a young child in his lap because the child will bring him to laughter, and he will be disgraced in the eyes of other people because he laughed while in mourning.”

The prohibition is explicit – a mourner should refrain from anything that may cause him/her to rejoice or laugh. The reason given, however, is somewhat quizzical – so that he is not ridiculed, or, disgraced by his inappropriate behavior while sitting shiva. It’s not that the Gemara prohibits laughter per se but is disturbed by the disrespect the mourner himself demonstrates while mourning.

It is evident from the Gemara that Chazal recognize and acknowledge a mourner’s elusive range of emotions during a shiva. The tendency to move from crying to laughter, from deep sadness to fond and happy memories is an innate element in the process of mourning. Chazal therefore do not forbid actual laughter; rather, they forbid stimulus that may result in laughing out of enjoyment that might suggest a sign of disrespect.

The Tur (Yoreh Deah 391) expounds upon the prohibition to engage in anything that may bring happiness or joy throughout the initial 30 days of mourning. “אבל אסור בשמחה כל שלושים יום” – (literally: a mourner is forbidden to be in happiness). It is even forbidden to have a baby on his lap since it may cause him to laugh. However, this is prohibited only during the Shiva.

The BaCh (391:1) explains why it is that holding a baby is only forbidden during the shiva and not throughout the 30 days: “there are different types of happiness. The reason to prohibit holding a baby is only due to our concern that it may cause the mourner to laugh. However, what is undoubtedly a happy occasion, like a feast, the mourner is forbidden to attend during the entirety of 30 days and for those mourning their parents, for 12 months.” We can see from the Bayit Chadash that the reason for not holding a baby isn’t because a mourner is not allowed to feel happiness but to give it an expression by laughing, to actually engage in a joyous moment. Once the shiva is over and the customs of mourning are less severe, we do not prohibit what may cause laughter but only what is undoubtedly a joyous gathering such as a feast.

The Beit Yosef (391:1) points out that the Rambam (Mishneh Torah, Mourning 5:20) brings the Halakha regarding a baby in a different context. Unlike the Tur who mentioned it in the context of happiness that is prohibited, the Rambam brings it with the Halakhot that are to do with refraining from greeting a mourner and the prohibition to answer a greeting. If a mourner mustn’t be greeted then all the more so he should refrain from unnecessary talk since it is a time for silent reflection rather than lively conversation. So too it is prohibited to hold a baby since it may bring him to laughter.

It is evident that the Rambam’s main concern is with the mourner’s active engagement with his surroundings during the shiva. The 7 days of mourning are a time for personal reflection rather than for lively and active engagement with the world.

Chabad mentions
A nursing mother who has joined the mourners in the Shiva home for the week of Shiva, may leave to go to her home to feed her baby, if she cannot arrange to have the baby with her at the Shiva home.

Marion wrote:

Rabbi Lamm in his book (the purple one; The Jewish Way in Death and Mourning) says it's inappropriate, and that mourners should not handle very young children davka because it brings simcha, and simcha and mourning do not go together. Just like a mourner doesn't learn Torah (except inyanei d'yoma).

It appears one may touch and feed your own baby if necessary but that's it. Not hold anyone else's. Each person should ask their own shaila though but definitely don't offer your baby to someone sitting shiva to cheer them up or in general.

amother

Cyclamen

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 8:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thoughts?
Have a levaya I should really attend but no1 to watch my 8 month old.
Can I bring her?

It depends who it is. I brought my 9m baby to a relatives levaya. It made sense.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 9:32 am

I brought my nursing baby to my grandparent's levaya. I asked around at the time and was told it was common for close relatives to bring their baby along if needed.

amother

Maize

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 9:33 am

If it's only on the street, and you can stand at a distance, it's okay.
Chapel and gravesite is something else.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total

allthingsblue

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 9:34 am

I wouldn’t bring.
Better to go yourself during shiva.

amother

Cadetblue

Thu, Jul 08 2021, 11:23 am

I would bring a baby only if it's on the street and I can stand in back of the crowd. I wouldn't bring a baby to a chapel or graveside.