Trampling Torah in the 9 Days / #MyUnorthodoxLife spinoff

amother

Clematis

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 1:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Decided to start a spinoff thread because I want to see if we can focus on responding, publicly to this.
I think what hurts most of all is the trampling of Torah that we're seeing here. It's the 9 Days. This show is a massive, massive Chilul Hashem and puts back any efforts in kiruv and Torah education back by a huge amount. I'm seriously not a fire and brimstone kind of person, but I'm devastated by this and we need to push back. Enough.

I happened to read R. Avigdor Miller z'l on Pinchas this Shabbos. Look what he says:

"If you want Hashem to love the Jewish people you have to stand up for the honor of Hashem. [redacted ] It means if you get angry when you see reshaim doing wicked things and you get up and you show your zeal and you stand up for the ideals of Hakodosh Boruch Hu –then Hashem loves the Jewish people. You have to be a fire for the truth, a fire against the reshaim. Protest! Speak up! If you do that, then Hakodosh Boruch Hu loves the Jewish people more. “My children are speaking up for Me!” He says. “I love them for ....Who knows a gifted polemicist who can do this?

You sound pretty darned gifted to me. Why don't you write something?

amother

Bronze

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 1:56 pm

essie14 wrote:

Believe me, no one is interested in a documentary about my life a wife and mother, even though I have a somewhat less conventional job than most Orthodox moms.

Anne Neuberger would be a great subject, although I highly doubt she will ever allow that.

There is a fabulous movie made about Ruchie Freier which I loved.

People are interested.
The Israeli series had great ratings, and Peter Santellos videos were enjoyed by many non Jews.

People enjoy learning about other cultures.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 23 2021, 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 2:22 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

Thank you OP for speaking the truth.
It is unfortunate to see how many people have become misguided under the guise of "ahavas yisroel". It's time to stand up for Hashem and his Torah. I've gotten torn down far too many times on this site for sticking up for the Torah.
This is so disturbing. We are not Pinchas??? We can be and we should be!!!!!!
In this case I do not know that the way to go about it is to protest the series publicly or whatever other suggestions there were, However, we need to make sure that within our hearts and our communities, we don't let this in and we defend the torah.
I think I should also create a spinoff of what ahavas Yisroel means. It's upsetting to see how misguided people are.

I agree and really like the bolded. I'm not quite sure how it fits with the line immediately before.
Pinchas had a brain we don't. Brilliant talmid chochom, he was able to calculate instantly that this was the appropriate action. For the rest of us, we need to stop and think. We need to evaluate how our message should be most appropriately delivered. There's divrei chachamim b'nachas nishma'im. Sometimes, there's even shev v'al taase. (You can be sure that Pinchas evaluated all this.) There's asking a sh'ailas chacham (or chachama) or an eitza. Which is all along the lines of what you said in the bolded.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 2:27 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Please understand that "liberal" in R Avigdor Miller's quote is not politics. It's his take on not pushing back against the "live and let live" mentality which soon becomes total apathy. Nothing to do with contemporary political labels.

It is politics. He was a very political person however you slice it.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 2:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Please take that quote in context. R Miller is talking about not walking on by when people slander and defame Yiddishkeit. That's it. That's the whole thing.

No, it is not "the whole thing." When he mentioned liberals, he meant liberals.

amother

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:06 pm

You're right. That could be. But it's nit picking. He is saying, b'gadol that we have no choice but to speak out against lies, demonizing theories and sarcasm directed at frum Jews. You with me? To quote Blake Flayton at the #NoFear rally in DC right now...my people are more important than my politics.

rikkik

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:10 pm

So, I am trying to figure out why I am SO bothered by the show. I don't have netflix, I am not going to watch it, nor have I watched any of the other OTD shows that netflix obsessively airs.
Maybe it's because I see the real world ramifications on how non-Jews view us?
The bigger issue for me is the effect that it has on non-orthodox Jews. My Torahmate got so turned off from Yiddishkeit from reading an OTD book. Which was about a Chassidishe person- and half of of the things were not applicable to my lifestyle! But most non-Jews and non-orthodox Jews don't know the difference.
If anyone here is so naïve to think "they are just telling their story." The bias that these shows create have real life ramifications for us frum Jews.
So many people have had interactions with ppl outside of our community where they were told, "I know all about your community, I watched Unorthodox." Depicting us as backwards dehumanizes us further than we are already and makes us easy prey for anti-semites and physical attacks.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Than consider not insulting your people over politics?

NotInNJMommy

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:37 pm

I think it would be more effective to address in each of our corners of the world the issues leading to the disaffected and resentful of frumkeit than go on a big PR campaign.

Those who have been marginalized or mistreated in the frum world, including institutionally and in the name of Torah won't be healed or have their minds changed by being dismissed or gaslit.

amother

Burntblack

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:49 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Not sure I agree. The Black Panthers pushed back and anti black bigotry stopped pretty fast. Last summer's protests changed the conversation too. We Orthodox Jews are just always prepared to lie down and take it. I understand that we need Da'as Torah guidance on this, but putting out our own docs (nice idea) is not going to stop visible Jews getting hurt - which is what shows like this lead to. We're portrayed as so unbelievably horrible that it gives license to street violence. It comes one straight year after Unorthodox and visible Jews are being stabbed in broad daylight.

Unorthodox was extremely popular (obviously not among any frum Jews..) and generated a lot of buzz. It did not portray us in a good light at all, but it did not cause visible Jews to start being attacked and cause street violence. The attacks were there before hand and I saw no evidence that it was raised after the show. Do you have proof that it did?

I think the best way to handle something like this is to not watch it, and not help the ratings. I think protests or public retaliation bashing is just as bad and just as much of a chillul Hashem.

amother

Bronze

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:51 pm

rikkik wrote:

The bigger issue for me is the effect that it has on non-orthodox Jews. My Torahmate got so turned off from Yiddishkeit from reading an OTD book. Which was about a Chassidishe person- and half of of the things were not applicable to my lifestyle! But most non-Jews and non-orthodox Jews don't know the difference.
If anyone here is so naïve to think "they are just telling their story." The bias that these shows create have real life ramifications for us frum Jews.
So many people have had interactions with ppl outside of our community where they were told, "I know all about your community, I watched Unorthodox." Depicting us as backwards dehumanizes us further than we are already and makes us easy prey for anti-semites and physical attacks.

To me this is the biggest problem with these series.

You know not to believe about the lifestyle you live, but you do believe the exaggerations if the OTD person was Chassidic, when you are orthodox yourself, and should know better.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 23 2021, 8:59 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Gray

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 3:52 pm

I have to disagree with OP that this will trample kiruv efforts. When I was becoming frum, I read blogs by people who knew the community that could be said to be 'bashing.' And these did the opposite of turn me away. I needed the authenticity. Not inspiration kiruv, not Bible codes kiruv...

Also in the story of the deprogrammed Yid, sounds like that was pretty easy. Maybe he had never thought of or been introduced to the right questions before. Do you folks think it is preferable to live a frum life rather than an examined life? I'm not so sure.

We either sell Judaism successfully to our fellow Jews, or we fail. I agree with the suggestions to come out with positive content. It has to be believable and it has to catch on.

amother

Goldenrod

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 4:10 pm

amother [ Burntblack ] wrote:

I think the best way to handle something like this is to not watch it, and not help the ratings. I think protests or public retaliation bashing is just as bad and just as much of a chillul Hashem.

It just garners more attention and ends up getting more people wanting to check it out when otherwise it wouldn't have been on their radar.
I think ignoring it is the way to go. Foolish to make a big deal out of it.

amother

Mocha

Sun, Jul 11 2021, 4:28 pm

Meghan Markle went on national TV to bash the royal family. It was watched by millions all over the world. What did the royal family do in response? They remained royal and classy and private.

Just because someone wants to go play in the mud in the public square, doesn't mean we should join them. There's no need to stoop to their level and no need to defend ourselves. Staying quiet and remaining who we are is sometimes louder than retaliation.