Is it poor form for rabbi's mishpacha to be buying up 'hood?

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 4:19 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I should also say that the family member is officially the president of the shul.

Eventually he will realize it's pretty shortsighted because of lack of shul expansion and growth. Like I said before, it's weird not to realize this. Even weirder if it's the president of the shul. Usually they are ones looking out for growth and trying to attract new members. Bottom line of a shul, you need membership (and the membership dues) to stay afloat. Especially in a small OOT shul. And making sure to be in a location within walking distance is key.

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 5:58 am

amother [ Topaz ] wrote:

Based on your post, he saw the potential for real estate and bought early - meaning prices are going up because people are buying more. Who else is buying? Are prices only going up because of his real estate?

It sounds like he bought knowing that as frum people buy, prices increase. Are more frum people not buying?

If not, why are prices going up?

sorry it took a while to get to this question. I'm not an economist but I took basic college economics -- this is a very complex question, but it all comes down to supply and demand.

the basic issue is that there are barely any houses for sale in our neighborhood (no houses for sale now). by buying up the neighborhood, they've effectively reduced the supply. they're secretly buying houses off-market by driving around and networking and talking to neighbors who they think might be selling soon, when otherwise these houses would be listed for sale -- which would give a jewish family the opportunity to buy them. and when a house does become available on the market, the price is going to be high because it's the only one on the market because the supply has been cut off.

they're also been overpaying for these houses so they grab them quietly in easy off-market sales, because it's still worth their while long-term to overpay. so that's generally inflating the prices in the neighborhood.

prices are going up not *just* because of them. they're going up for a variety of reasons. for one, we're in a big nationwide real estate boom (prices rising and limited supply everywhere). but the mishpacha had been buying up the neighborhood before this boom started.

and it's not just prices going up for frum families. that's one issue -- that frum families can't afford to buy. it's mainly choosing to rent to non-jews which affect the supply such that there are simply no houses to buy which is stagnating the growth.

again, I'm not an economist. I can't explain the cause-and-effect perfectly, and it doesn't really matter -- the big picture is whether it's appropriate or not. just thought it'd be useful to try to break down the economics.

SuperWify

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 6:01 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

sorry it took a while to get to this question. I'm not an economist but I took basic college economics -- this is a very complex question, but it all comes down to supply and demand.

the basic issue is that there are barely any houses for sale in our neighborhood (no houses for sale now). by buying up the neighborhood, they've effectively reduced the supply. they're secretly buying houses off-market by driving around and networking and talking to neighbors who they think might be selling soon, when otherwise these houses would be listed for sale -- which would give a jewish family the opportunity to buy them. and when a house does become available on the market, the price is going to be high because it's the only one on the market because the supply has been cut off.

they're also been overpaying for these houses so they grab them quietly in easy off-market sales, because it's still worth their while long-term to overpay. so that's generally inflating the prices in the neighborhood.

prices are going up not *just* because of them. they're going up for a variety of reasons. for one, we're in a big nationwide real estate boom (prices rising and limited supply everywhere). but the mishpacha had been buying up the neighborhood before this boom started.

again, I'm not an economist. I can't explain the cause-and-effect perfectly, and it doesn't really matter -- the big picture is whether it's appropriate or not. just thought it'd be useful to try to break down the economics .

I wonder what would happen if you broach the subject with your rabbi. He might shed light.

amother

Foxglove

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 7:44 am

amother [ Mintcream ] wrote:

Your OP is presented a little presumptuously, as if you are completely sure of all the details. It is unlikely that you have all of the information necessary to pass judgment on these people.
The best thing you can do for your community is to foster peace and help make it a non- judgemental place.

I agree. and who knows how much influence your Rabbi has on his "mishpacha". his brothers? his sons? Maybe your Rabbi feels it's not his place to tell them which properties to buy or not....

amother

Mimosa

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:29 am

I think it's disrespectful to scrutinize the behavior of the Rabbis family. You have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Aside from the fact that everything they're doing seems legal and just good business sense, you don't know if the Rabbi agrees with what his family is doing or not. You say they're warmly welcomed at events? Of course they are, why would they not be? How does that reflect what the Rabbis opinion on their business choices is?

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:40 am

amother [ Mimosa ] wrote:

What about the fact that one of the mishpacha the president of the shul? that's certainly an endorsement by the rabbi.

amother

Glitter

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:26 am

Ugh I find those kinds of predatory real estate tactics really distasteful, but if they're outside the community, I don't really see what you can do. That's capitalism and it is a real way some frum people make money.

I do wonder if you broached the topic in a community forum and framed it in a more positive light (ex: what can we do to grow our wonderful community? What is stopping people from moving here currently, and how can we address these issues?) and included the rabbi add president in your forum, maybe it would bring it to people's attention, and possibly bring forth some solutions. Maybe the Rabbi doesn't know the extent of that's going on, or has limited control over what happens.

amother

Crystal

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What about the fact that one of the mishpacha the president of the shul? that's certainly an endorsement by the rabbi.

Does the rabbi select the shul president? Every shul I've ever attended, the shul president is elected by the membership, which would suggest that no one else is upset by these practices. Or at least not upset enough to take on that thankless role.

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 10:40 am

amother [ Crystal ] wrote:

there's no board, no other officers and no elections. the rabbi runs the show and the mishpacha is called "the president of the shul." there's nothing formal about it, though.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 10:47 am

Is it the rabbi's brother or, say, a distant cousin? Big difference in degree of relationship and how that affects things.
Usually when I hear the term " the mishpacha" I think big extended clan. Your op is a bit confusing. It gives the impression that a big group of family members swooped down to buy up the neighborhood. Almost like the mafia or something...Now it sounds like it is just 1 relative who also happens to be the shul president? It's also really unusual for a rabbi and a shul president to be related. So, it sounds like things may be a bit unusual in your shul.

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 2:37 pm

amother [ Crystal ] wrote:

op there is so much going on here that you are not telling us. But, the reality is that his relative is doing nothing. And, at the end of the day, a shul and rabbi need income from somewhere. How far does someone need to go so that others can buy houses in a neighborhood vs a livelihood is not for us to judge. in addition, as much as you expect this rabbi to "take a stand" and "stop" allowing this relative to be president, the fact is if the rabbi thinks its not against halacha but maybe not the best thing to do, the rabbi still understands that one needs to be careful in these situations. Banning him from being president would probably create a machlokes which hashem doesnt want.

However, it sounds like you are biased bec you or others you know want to buy a house that this relative bought out, but this is business, if the relative didnt buy these houses, another yehudi probably wouldve done so. there is probably nothing wrong.

do you really think you know better than the rabbi what is the correct thing to do here?

it just sounds like you are bitter because it affects you. Some yehudim in my neighborhood are selling to nonyehudim bec they pay more. Do we, who live here, like that? not at all, but its a fact of life that theyll try to get the most money for it...just like kosher food stores will charge tons of money for the same chalav stam product I can find in target or...for cheaper...or with sheitels etc..

its not against halacha....

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 4:32 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

do you really think you know better than the rabbi what is the correct thing to do here?

I don't know what to think. That's why I'm asking people on here how I should think and feel about all this. As I said, I'm looking for a reality check. It seems that opinions are all over the map -- some think the rabbi is in the wrong, others don't; some think the mishpacha are in the wrong, others don't.

I appreciate all the thoughtful opinions on all sides of the spectrum, but it's disappointing that a small minority of people on here are so judgmental that they lash out at other posters who ask a genuine, thoughtful question.

Quote:

And, at the end of the day, a shul and rabbi need income from somewhere. How far does someone need to go so that others can buy houses in a neighborhood vs a livelihood is not for us to judge.

Why isn't it the community's business? If the community feels that the shul rabbi and his mishpacha are taking actions that are adverse to the best interests of the community, why isn't it the community's business?

Quote:

However, it sounds like you are biased bec you or others you know want to buy a house that this relative bought out

We have a house we're happy with, and don't play the real estate game. So our only bias is that we want the community to grow with good Jewish families. Everyone has a bias in some way. I think my bias is legitimate.

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if the relative didnt buy these houses, another yehudi probably wouldve done so. there is probably nothing wrong

If another Jewish family would have bought the house and lived in it themselves, yet the rabbi's mishpacha bought the house and rented it to a non-Jew, that's very problematic to me. I know nothing about halacha, but it is rubs my moral compass the wrong way. Again, I'm not sure if my feeling is appropriate or not -- that's why I'm asking here.

amother

Anemone

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 4:59 pm

amother [ Canary ] wrote:

Either go into real estate or the rabbanus, not both. This doesn't sound like it's going to end well for the community.

I don't agree, I think rabbis should try to have other income streams besides rabbanus. Not sure about the situation under discussion, but it seems to me that a rabbi having some real estate to provide for his family would be an ideal way for him to devote himself to the community matters that don't pay him anything.

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 7:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

interesting. so, in my neighborhood, yehudim are moving out and selling to non yehudim bec they are offering more money than yehudim. This also stops my community from growing.

Do you think this is wrong too?

Why does me and my neighbors desire to grow my community affect how a yehudi will make money by selling it to a nonyehudi?

So too, you want the community to grow, but you are saying this relative is buying homes for nonyehudim to rent, since when is growing your community something that a yehudi has to look out for to prevent his parnassa? This is what capitalism and real estate is all about. I think you sound like a liberal like the democrats who want to take from the wealthy to give the poor because they say the rich cant have all while the poor suffer. So too, you seem to be saying that this relative cant make money because you want your community to grow.

amother

Canary

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:55 pm

The rabbi and his relative control the shul and are playing the real estate market around the shul.

That's not the same as letting the free market operate according to the laws of supply and demand.

And again, it's fine - maybe preferable - for a rabbi to have an independent income , but not one that impacts his congregants.

It looks like he wants to set up a kehilla of his own, where he holds both religious and economic power. This is not a healthy situation.