S/o Crying it out | Imamother

amother

Antiquewhite

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:39 pm

amother [ Electricblue ] wrote:

I'm pro CIO because it works.

Why is it any better to cry for longer amounts of time, over many more days/weeks, with an adult present vs. crying a shorter amount of time and learning quickly to sleep alone - which is what the poor baby really needs?

MY CIO babies cried for 4 days for 60 min, 0 min, 30 min, 10 min then fell asleep. Total 100 minutes of crying. Slept like angels after.

My non CIO baby (only made that mistake once) cried for 60 min (with me in the room) for 10 nights = 600 minutes of crying.

You’re pro CIO because it works? Just because it “works” doesn’t make it any less terrible.

Babies aren’t supposed to be easy. And you shouldn’t neglect them so that you can have a full nights sleep. Sorry but don’t have a baby if you can’t take care of it.

And I’m someone who has a 2 year old who is juuuust learning to sleep through the night. On his own. Without trauma. And he is a beautiful, perfect, thriving toddler bh who managed just fine without 12 straight hours of sleep.

amother

Navy

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:44 pm

amother [ Antiquewhite ] wrote:

So let me ask you a question. What do you do when you have a newborn, an 18 month old, a 3 year old and many other children keh and you're sleeping 2-3 hours a night? What should you do? How can your toddler thrive when you aren't? I don't know if CIO is the answer, but I'm just asking.

amother

Ebony

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:49 pm

"Babies aren’t supposed to be easy." That's debatable. Depends on the individual baby as well as your parenting methods. There's no particular virtue in making more work for yourself or making your life more difficult. I value my sleep and my time to myself during the day. I read to my littles a bit, take them out, care for them, mostly I just let them play on the floor while I do my own thing. And at night, once my intuition tells me the time is right, I start putting them down drowsy but awake and go from there.

You know why people were able to get enough sleep before sleep training was a concept? Because they all slept together. That's the natural way. Today not everyone is willing to do that. You have to find something that works for you and not try to run on very little sleep.

amother

Peach

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:49 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

Don't have more kids that you can handle.
Hire help. If you're really falling apart, send babies to a sitter during the day for afew hours so you can get some rest or hire a sitter at home.
Put babies on a schedule right away so it gets them used to healthy sleeping patterns.
Sleep train without letting baby CIO.

amother

Quince

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:52 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

You take more help. You rotate with your husband or you hire a nanny or a babysitter.

If that's not possible financially you take bc.

If a hatzala member is on a call pulling 3 kids out of a pool he does not drop them because there's a new call that just came in.

If parents are busy raising 2 tiny kids and aren't coping as is they make sure not to get busy with a new call.

amother

Antiquewhite

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:56 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

I think the answer would be to not have another baby if you don’t think you’d be able to manage. There are also gentler ways of getting your baby to sleep more. A simple google search will give you lots of ideas.

amother

Celeste

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:00 pm

I guess the consensus is that all pro sleep training mothers shouldn’t be mothers! What an easy way to weed out the appropriate mothers among us!

Stop it, everyone. Stop. There are pros and cons to each side, there is NO crystal clear consensus in the medical world, you will have attachment psychologists emphasizing the emotional trauma crying it out causes and pediatricians citing studies that show no significant neural changes with babies who cry it out. It is absolutely no one’s right to make a mother feel like she has abused her child because she put her own mental health first, and what she saw as the good sleep habits of her baby. If other methods work for you, that’s wonderful. Keep at it. Stop shaming people for functioning differently than you. You are not a better, kinder person because you can’t imagine allowing your baby to cry.

amother

Peach

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:02 pm

amother [ Celeste ] wrote:

Sleep training and CIO are 2 different things. CIO is NOT sleep training, it's sleep forcing. There are methods of sleep training and professional sleep coaches that sleep train without CIO.

amother

Celeste

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:08 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Sleep training and CIO are 2 different things. CIO is NOT sleep training, it's sleep forcing. There are methods of sleep training and professional sleep coaches that sleep train without CIO.

There are few, if any effective methods out there that have zero crying involved. They’re all versions of extinction, some with check-ins, parent’s presence, etc. The fundamentals are the same. Wake windows and sleep routines are helpful but will not provide you with a full night’s sleep. Feel free to share effective methods that don’t take many, many months to work.

amother

Peach

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:13 pm

amother [ Celeste ] wrote:

There's a difference between leaving a baby to cry alone in a room for an endless amount of time and them crying when a parent is with them and soothing them. It's not even to compare. And it's normal for babies, especially under 1, to not sleep 12 hours straight. Healthy sleep habits should start being implemented as early as possible. Every method takes commitment and patience, it's not supposed to be easy for the parents to do what’s right for the child. It doesn't take many many months to work if done right. CIO is taking the easy way out. It "works" because the baby gives up because he has no other choice.

amother

Quince

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:22 pm

amother [ Celeste ] wrote:

Stop promoting CIO. Stop it.
Just stop it.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:39 pm

CIO is abusive. Full stop. Moms from last generation and old school pediatricians will promote it either because they personally did it to their babies or they are old school and don’t know any better. Thank Gd we have lots of new knowledge and research nowadays and we don’t do CIO. It’s abusive and cold hearted to allow a baby just cry and cry until they despair.
You are causing your baby trauma and pain.
There are much gentler ways to have your babies sleep. And an 8 month old waking up once or twice a night to nurse for a few minutes is normal. Nurse them back to sleep and that’s it. It’s really ok.

amother

Celeste

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 10:08 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Don’t tell anyone what the “easy way out is.” It’s condescending and presumes you know what the process was like for them, when you can’t possibly.

I say this as someone who did not do “cry it out” as you describe it, but a “gentler” form. I stand by the notion that all forms of sleep training are a form of cry it out. Essentially the baby gives up and goes to sleep. A little less crying, a little more crying, with the parent, without the parent. Maybe it makes something of a difference, I don’t think the difference is significant enough.

No, the conflict in this thread is about mothers who think they’re kinder and better because they wouldn’t allow their baby who they birthed to cry, versus mothers who are absolutely desperate for sleep and are willing to make the compromises. I say this as a trauma informed, attachment informed, emotionally aware and attuned parent. I have zero shame about doing what I need to for my household to function well for everyone involved. No mother should dare imply whether I’m ready for more children, or if I’m fit to be a mother.

The jury is out on the long term effects of sleep training. If that weren’t the case we wouldn’t be having this discussion. In the meantime, trust your instincts, your own research, and your own self-knowledge and not a bunch of anonymous sanctimonious naysayers on the internet. The AAP has conducted studies on sleep training and supports it; if you consider them a bunch of “old-fashioned pediatricians,” take that up with them and not mothers who are doing the best they can with the information they have.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 10:09 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

LISTEN EVERYONE!!! Stop telling her to take BC!!!

I have one child conceived thru IVF, with many prayers!!

and cannot function without sleep!!!!!!!

(Don't jump at me. Did not do CIO)

amother

Quince

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 10:17 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

LISTEN EVERYONE!!! Stop telling her to take BC!!!

I have one child conceived thru IVF, with many prayers!!

and cannot function without sleep!!!!!!!

(Don't jump at me. Did not do CIO)

She was asking hypothetically.

As someone that was in this situation and I need not 7 not 8 but 10 hours of sleep a day (doesn't have to be at once) I feel that I'm allowed to say take more help and if you can't afford help take bc.

Don't do cio.

If a mother can't make her daughter's Sheva brochos because she is too overwhelmed and tired would that also be ok?
No. Because it isn't socially accepted and the mother would be embarrassed.

To deliberately let an infant cio is way more hurtful than not attending a child's sheva brochos. With infants you get the benefit that it isn't public and you think that you're entitled to secretly do whatever you want.

I'm here to stick up for these infants and give them a voice.