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Middle class is absolutely awful!!
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:06 pm
I am in quite a predicament. If you make $20-$30k, you get significant tuition breaks, tax refunds, government assistance etc. If you make $50-$60k, you have to pay more tuition and taxes and that extra $20k doesn't go in your pocket but to the government and to the schools.
I am used to being poor my whole life and making very, very little. I have the opportunity now for a higher paying job but I'm scared that I'll kill myself to work 40 hours and have crazy mornings getting out in time due to traffic on the commute, plus having to deal with kids and managing the house on top of everything. Then I'll come home with nothing more. There won't be any property tax credits on my house or tax refunds. The tuition committee will take a few more thousand per kid.
So why do people work harder if they don't get to keep their money? I would have to sacrifice so much physically, emotionally, and mentally to work full time. And I won't even get to enjoy any of the money or be able to afford little luxuries. Unless you're making well over $100k, there in no point in working harder. It's so hard to get out of poverty and work hard when you don't get any personal results.
I'm so torn about taking this job and being left with no extra money and becoming a ragged, frazzled mom all for nothing.
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dinglehopper




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:21 pm
But if you do that now, then you open yourself up to more opportunities in the future. Your salary will go up and you won't be stuck trying to stay under some income limit.
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amother




Valerian
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:22 pm
Would this higher paying job have the potential to lead you to even higher paying jobs? Is there growth potential?

You might find that the path to $100k+ (that you consider a worthwhile amount) unfortunately leads through a rough patch in the middle before you can break through to the other side.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:22 pm
This is a welfare mentality. Go for the higher paying job.
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amother




Pear
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:25 pm
Hate to break it to you but unless you are earning well over 200K or even more you are still stuck there.

My husband and I earned a combined $180K. We get zero breaks and pay for everything full price. We are very very middle class and don't have money for extras.
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Revafe




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:27 pm
amother [ Pear ] wrote:
Hate to break it to you but unless you are earning well over 200K or even more you are still stuck there.

My husband and I earned a combined $180K. We get zero breaks and pay for everything full price. We are very very middle class and don't have money for extras.


This! As the family grows and kids age, financial needs increase as well.
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amother




Marigold
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 11:42 pm
amother [ Pear ] wrote:
Hate to break it to you but unless you are earning well over 200K or even more you are still stuck there.

My husband and I earned a combined $180K. We get zero breaks and pay for everything full price. We are very very middle class and don't have money for extras.


This. We make over $100K and we struggle. We don't have extra money. $100K for a frum family isn't alot.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 12:01 am
We make over 200k and struggle and live super simply. Middle class stinks.

I think Unless you have potential to earn big it’s worth it to stay on programs and work less.

I wrote this once before. I just realized my sister in law who works a fraction of my hours can afford her groceries way better then me. She offered to cover part of food purchase for a joint simcha. It’s ridiculous she can spend more freely on food then I.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 12:07 am
Does pride, ethics, self worth….. play in at all?
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amother




Denim
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 12:09 am
I'm in the exact same predicament right now.
I work part time and have my toddler home with me. If I send her to school next year I can work more full time. But where does that get me?
I'll have another kid's tuition to pay. And the school will see the extra 30k I'm making and charge me more for my other kids.
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amother




Pear
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 12:31 am
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
Does pride, ethics, self worth….. play in at all?


I can't see that being worth all the effort.
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amother




Sunflower
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 12:39 am
I think you really need to figure out the numbers. If its really minimally more after increased child care and loss of benefits, then no its not worth it. If its some more money with potential for growth and possibly less hours then yes it may be worth it.
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imaima




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 1:14 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am in quite a predicament. If you make $20-$30k, you get significant tuition breaks, tax refunds, government assistance etc. If you make $50-$60k, you have to pay more tuition and taxes and that extra $20k doesn't go in your pocket but to the government and to the schools.
I am used to being poor my whole life and making very, very little. I have the opportunity now for a higher paying job but I'm scared that I'll kill myself to work 40 hours and have crazy mornings getting out in time due to traffic on the commute, plus having to deal with kids and managing the house on top of everything. Then I'll come home with nothing more. There won't be any property tax credits on my house or tax refunds. The tuition committee will take a few more thousand per kid.
So why do people work harder if they don't get to keep their money? I would have to sacrifice so much physically, emotionally, and mentally to work full time. And I won't even get to enjoy any of the money or be able to afford little luxuries. Unless you're making well over $100k, there in no point in working harder. It's so hard to get out of poverty and work hard when you don't get any personal results.
I'm so torn about taking this job and being left with no extra money and becoming a ragged, frazzled mom all for nothing.


50-60k is a step on the way to 100k and more.

Some people also wait till their kids are older to work more.
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amother




Pansy
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 1:24 am
amother [ Pear ] wrote:
Hate to break it to you but unless you are earning well over 200K or even more you are still stuck there.

My husband and I earned a combined $180K. We get zero breaks and pay for everything full price. We are very very middle class and don't have money for extras.

More is still more. You have more than people who have less than you.
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amother




Pear
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 1:31 am
amother [ Pansy ] wrote:
More is still more. You have more than people who have less than you.


Not really. After taxes, tuition, and required deductions we are left with less then half.

If we had medicaid, food stamps, section 8, energy assistance, cash assistance, plus tuition deductions we would probably break even without all the added stress of working full time.
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familyfirst




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 1:32 am
Ideologically, I’d work harder for Better pay even if it went to taxes etc
Practically, if this trade off would affect my kids by having a more harried mom home for fewer hours, I’d wait. You are legally entitled to the programs- enjoy them. At the right time, you can trade in the programs for longer hours of work.

Tough spot to be in. Agreed that the middle class often gets the raw end of the deal
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amother




Birch
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 1:46 am
amother [ Pansy ] wrote:
More is still more. You have more than people who have less than you.


You don’t have more then those that earn less

Child tax credits
Child stimulus
Affordable housing with locked in taxes or HUD
Wic
Food stamps (which are now giving crazy amounts)
Free cell phone
Free health insurance (including glasses for kids) (that alone costs me 12,000 a year + copays + meds)
HEAP to help with gas bill in winter
Day camp assistance
Tuition deduction

I Work more then 40 hrs a week. Live with stress. Balancing kids and life. See 30% of my income disappear to the government. To watch ppl who work 20 hrs a week and spend lots of leisure time with their kids making 20,000 + in child tax rebates.
I feel so stupid.
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amother




Outerspace
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 1:54 am
amother [ Birch ] wrote:
You don’t have more then those that earn less

Child tax credits
Child stimulus
Affordable housing with locked in taxes or HUD
Wic
Food stamps (which are now giving crazy amounts)
Free cell phone
Free health insurance (including glasses for kids) (that alone costs me 12,000 a year + copays + meds)
HEAP to help with gas bill in winter
Day camp assistance
Tuition deduction

I Work more then 40 hrs a week. Live with stress. Balancing kids and life. See 30% of my income disappear to the government. To watch ppl who work 20 hrs a week and spend lots of leisure time with their kids making 20,000 + in child tax rebates.
I feel so stupid.


30 percent? That means you're making well over 200k. Are you sure your just not managing your money well?
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amother




Lightblue
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 2:04 am
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
Does pride, ethics, self worth….. play in at all?

No. Not at all. Because right now she’s raising kids and she’d be losing her sanity by taking on a full time job that doesn’t even bring in more money for a cleaning lady!!
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jul 16 2021, 3:56 am
I hugged this post before even reading the whole thing, because yes, it sucks.

Some thoughts though.

1 - don't talk yourself out of the job before even trying it. Don't turn it down just because maybe it will be hard and maybe the commute will be stressful and... etc. At least give yourself a few months to try it out and see if you can make it work (even if you can make it work, the first couple of months will be stressful - give yourself at least half a year to get used to the work and see if things get better).

2 - having a more interesting job is also something. Most of the work that you can do part-time or for low pay is boring, unchallenging work. I mean, there are limits, I'd rather work 20 hours/week doing something dull than 80/week doing something fascinating - but still something to keep in mind.

3 - keep the long term in mind, too. The subsidies that are enough for a family with little kids may not go as far with older kids. There are also the 20-odd years after your kids graduate but before you retire to consider.

4 - money is freedom. Yeah, OK, maybe it goes to tuition, but if you're paying with your money, you get to decide which school you want to pay tuition to. You get to choose whether you'd rather live in cheap housing in a bad neighborhood, or spend a bit more to live somewhere nicer. If you're getting that stuff from programs, then have to do what they ask from you. You have to stay at the school that gives tuition breaks. You have to stay in the neighborhood where subsidized housing is available.

5 - poverty is dependence. And programs can change. Eligibility requirements can change.
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