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If you're jealous of poor people, go be poor!
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amother




Daffodil
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 9:37 pm
amother [ RosePink ] wrote:
This is true. I hear a lot about the financial struggles of the middle class, but they're working hard to buy their kids the latest shenanigans and pay off their two mortgages (summer home, of course); they're not struggling to afford the class trip fee and therapy for their kids.


Not all middle class have two mortgages or buy their kids the latest stuff. I dont. I need to be very careful with how I spend to afford tuition since I don't qualify for any breaks. That doesn't leave me with extras for vacations, cleaning help, eating out etc...I am not complaining, I am just saying how it is. Not all middle class earners are living a luxurious life.
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amother




Pewter
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 9:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
People who are middle class should have planned better then. It's about financial savvy. Break out those bootstraps.

Better planning would mean my husband should get a lower paying job, where a lower percentage of his paycheck is taken? Or should I have planned better and made sure to not have a child with special needs who costs a lot of money, between school and therapists and meds and camp? Or should I have planned better to make sure that local schools wouldn’t take my daughter for no good reason, and now she’s going to a school that costs $20,000 + and they don’t give scholarships?
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amother




Pewter
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 9:49 pm
amother [ DarkKhaki ] wrote:
Says the one who's living a high class luxury lifestyle on government programs......

She planned it that way….
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amother




DarkKhaki
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 10:20 pm
amother [ RosePink ] wrote:
This is true. I hear a lot about the financial struggles of the middle class, but they're working hard to buy their kids the latest shenanigans and pay off their two mortgages (summer home, of course); they're not struggling to afford the class trip fee and therapy for their kids.


What you're describing isn't middle class, it's rich. We're a typical middle class family. We live in a cheap old rental, the kids on the block that have the latest shenanigans, Segways, electric scooters.... are the families that are on government programs. There are months when we're really tight and we struggle. We don't eat out or buy expensive groceries like the people that have food stamps do. We almost never get take out. We budget very carefully. We're typical middle class. Typical middle class doesn't own 2 homes. The rich do.
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amother




RosePink
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 10:24 pm
amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:
Not all middle class have two mortgages or buy their kids the latest stuff. I dont. I need to be very careful with how I spend to afford tuition since I don't qualify for any breaks. That doesn't leave me with extras for vacations, cleaning help, eating out etc...I am not complaining, I am just saying how it is. Not all middle class earners are living a luxurious life.


Of course not all middle class people have two mortgages!

It's was very off-putting when one such person kvetched to me about how hard they have it, though.

It also shows that not every person in a category is alike, and making broad assumptions about a huge group of people is unfair and silly. Basically, just because you know one person or even ten people living comfortably on programs doesn't mean deliberate poverty works. And just because some middle class people are struggling because they live beyond their means doesn't mean that's the reason for all the struggles of the middle class.
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amother




RosePink
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 10:28 pm
amother [ DarkKhaki ] wrote:
What you're describing isn't middle class, it's rich. We're a typical middle class family. We live in a cheap old rental, the kids on the block that have the latest shenanigans, Segways, electric scooters.... are the families that are on government programs. There are months when we're really tight and we struggle. We don't eat out or buy expensive groceries like the people that have food stamps do. We almost never get take out. We budget very carefully. We're typical middle class. Typical middle class doesn't own 2 homes. The rich do.


The person I talked to is convinced that they're middle class. I wasn't going to make them give me their tax returns to disprove it.
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amother




DarkKhaki
 

Post Sat, Jul 17 2021, 10:29 pm
amother [ RosePink ] wrote:
Of course not all middle class people have two mortgages!

It's was very off-putting when one such person kvetched to me about how hard they have it, though.

It also shows that not every person in a category is alike, and making broad assumptions about a huge group of people is unfair and silly. Basically, just because you know one person or even ten people living comfortably on programs doesn't mean deliberate poverty works. And just because some middle class people are struggling because they live beyond their means doesn't mean that's the reason for all the struggles of the middle class.


That person is rich, not middle class. Middle class typically can't afford 2 mortgages. Most middle class don't live beyond their means and still struggle. Middle class is the hardest bracket to be in.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 7:20 am
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
Better planning would mean my husband should get a lower paying job, where a lower percentage of his paycheck is taken? Or should I have planned better and made sure to not have a child with special needs who costs a lot of money, between school and therapists and meds and camp? Or should I have planned better to make sure that local schools wouldn’t take my daughter for no good reason, and now she’s going to a school that costs $20,000 + and they don’t give scholarships?

Absolutely, if being poor is the goal.
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amother




Sunflower
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 8:17 am
I used to be poor.
Utilities got shut off.
We couldn’t pay our mortgage and we were getting foreclosure letters.
Every time the phone rang it was someone asking for payment.
The grocery stores wouldn’t send my orders since the credit card wouldn’t go through.
I couldn’t pay my kids tuition.
I couldn’t send my kids to camp.
I couldn’t buy my kids or myself clothing or pay for a haircut.

Now I feel rich. I can pay my bills.
I can buy things on my credit card without it being declined.
I think that’s what it means to feel rich?
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amother




Tan
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 8:36 am
What a clueless post.
Instead of fixing the broken system you are blaming the hurt middle class? They are worse off than the poor in the US.
So uninformed.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 8:55 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
What a clueless post.
Instead of fixing the broken system you are blaming the hurt middle class? They are worse off than the poor in the US.
So uninformed.

What a rude post. It's not my job to fix the broken system. And the middle class are not worse off than the poor. If they were, they should just go be poor. Plus, the real reason the middle class are suffering is because the billionaires aren't paying their taxes.
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amother




Garnet
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:24 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
That thread is driving me crazy. There are people on there saying that they refuse to pay full tuition, because then it's paying for someone else's kid. But then if no one pays for someone else's kid, there's no such thing as all these tuition rebates. It's all why should I work hard let someone else work hard. That's the problem, it's that no one wants to work and they all want to pay the bare minimum and also have bugaboos.


Exactly. The problem is that those who don't want to work want other people to pay for their extras. It's not only they don't want to work, they want to have the goods too. Many working mothers would be SAHMs in a heartbeat, but they don't want to have others pay their way. So they work extra hard carrying two burdens and do what they need to to. They shouldn't be paying other people's tuitions bill. That should come out of a fundraiser or tzedakah contributions. They're already working hard to pay their own way, why should they struggle further to pay someone else's ways.

There are those who are doing everything they can, but still are dirt poor. Those I truly understand and my issues are not with them. My issues are with those who arrange their lifestyle to be that they are a SAHM and have others pay their way via gov't programs or tuition discounts.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:28 am
Off topic, but at this point the hug button might as well be replaced with an "eff you" button.
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amother




Garnet
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:30 am
amother [ RosePink ] wrote:
This is a huge issue for so many women. Even in the most frum circles, there is little support in place for working women. Childcare is expensive, and doesn't exist at all in certain situations, like finding someone willing to take a child off a preschool bus or pick them up from a playgroup with no transportation. And how much can you earn in those hours between 10 (when the last bus is finally off) and 3 when the first bus returns?

Not to mention that such reasonably flexible jobs are hard to come by and/or don't pay well enough unless you are in a specialized field,


You can do what others do in this positions - have the kids dropped off a babysitters house and you pick them up at the end of your working hours.

Reasonable and good paying jobs don't just come about. You have to put in the work to get to that place. Either you work a couple of years to develop your skills or you get a degree and then you have more options available to you.

Expecting to easily find a good-paying flexible job without putting in the work is of the similar mindset of arranging your life around outside assistance. It's the mindset why should I work hard when I can get it from others or have other do the hard work instead of me?

If you start your life with a goal in mind, such as being financially independent and putting in the hard work to get to that point, there is a very good chance that you will get to the point where you life is not a daily struggle and others are not paying your way. With Hashem's help of course.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:32 am
Good jobs require hard work, but they require more than hard work.
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amother




Tan
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:33 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What a rude post. It's not my job to fix the broken system. And the middle class are not worse off than the poor. If they were, they should just go be poor. Plus, the real reason the middle class are suffering is because the billionaires aren't paying their taxes.


Not your job to fix it but don’t bash the middle class for complaining.
You clearly don’t know what it means to work your *ss off and have to give it all to Uncle Sam to distribute further to others while you get nothing.
And FYI, many people actually cut hours or wages to be considered low income so they can get all these benefits, so yes, many alreayd do why you suggested.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:37 am
I'm not bashing people for complaining. Some middle class people here are bashing the poor out of jealousy.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:40 am
Also, on the other thread, someone outright denied that above the level that is eligible for assistance, people who have more money have more than people who have less money.
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amother




Tan
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:45 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not bashing people for complaining. Some middle class people here are bashing the poor out of jealousy.


There is definitely an attitude in America that people are lazy and just collect benefits.
Thousands of people haven’t worked in years and live off benefits, Jews and non skews alike.
And more and more people lazy out because our government enables them so much.
The “jealousy” stems from hard working people having to support them.
It’s sad because many people do work hard and are still poor. And then when tax payers complain, they take it personal but really it isn’t about the hard working poor people.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Jul 20 2021, 9:50 am
In the secular world it is possible to be lazy on benefits. In the frum world they do not support even the bare minimum lifestyle.
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