Do you personally know

amother

Melon

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 9:48 am

southernbubby wrote:

Ok, I just read a lot about it. Out of all the PCR tests done in each county, those with high viral loads are sent to the state for sequencing which takes two weeks. The patient is not informed about this because the treatment is the same regardless of the variant.

In other words, no one knows if they have delta or not since there is no way to test it separately and if their test does get sent to the state then they dont even know about it or get the results. So anyone claiming they have delta is being dishonest. And the cdc is being dishonest about the numbers as well since there is no special testing and only a small number of tests is being referred to the state (and we dont get the results back since we dont even know that its being sent to the state). And all these so called "studies" about delta is fake as well for the same reasons.
So clearly, we know nothing about covid and if delta is real or not or if vaccinated people are the ones getting it at a higher level or anything else. Yet we are all supposed to just trust what they are telling us and take the vaccine even though we know for sure that its not working considering that many vaccinated people are getting covid. Thanks for clarifying.

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 9:56 am

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

The information is based both on observation and in sequencing a sampling. Delta is obviously real because it's been around since December of 2020 and spread like wildfire in India. We know that coronavirus rapidly mutates.
What human do you want to put your trust in for this virus? The vaccine works to varying degrees and I think that Israel is right to pursue treatment options besides vaccines.
Somehow HCQ and ivermectin don't seem to be on their list of considerations. I guess that there will be a black market for that stuff.

amother

Melon

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:04 am

southernbubby wrote:

Again, while delta is real there is no way to test for it (other than to secretly sent it to the state) so anyone claiming to have delta is straight up lying. And anyone writing a paper about it is lying as well bc they would not have full data on a limited amount of secret tests by the state so the studies are fake. And of course the cdc is lying because they have inconclusive information based on limited amount of secret tests from the state which is not enough data to know anything for sure.
So we dont know much about this delta or if it effects vaccinated people more than non-vaccinated people. And we know that the vaccine is not working so we should bring back all the life saving medications like hcq and ivermectin (and put people on the zelenko protocol before they even get covid) instead of pushing a vaccine that doesnt work (or intubating people when we know for sure that doesnt work either).

DrMom

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:09 am

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

Here in Israel they do tests which determine the strain of the virus - not on all infected people, but on enough of them so they know what % of the positives are attributable to which strains. The Indian variant is by far the dominant one here, so anyone catching covid here in June/July probably infected with the delta strain.

DrMom

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:13 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I understand but given that fact that many are still getting decently sick, as evidenced but the fact that many are sick enough to get tested, maybe they dont have a lower viral load. The studies neveristwd numbers of viral loads in vaccinated vs unvaccinated for comparison.

Can you back up any of your claims with published sources? You demand a lot of sources from others, but you never supply any of your own.

You can find plenty of studies on viral loads of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people. Why don't you use google to look things up before posting?

amother

Melon

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:26 am

DrMom wrote:

Like I said previously, Israel is different than America because they had multiple lockdowns and very few people even got covid the first time (someone mentioned less than a million which is nothing compared to the millions of people in America who got covid and recovered). So people in Israel who are now getting covid are presumably vaccinated already but getting covid for the first time.
In America, there is no separate test for the delta variant so there is no way to know if its affecting vaccinated people less than non-vaccinated people (many of whom are already recovered and have antibodies/T-cells). Its all lies and corruption here but no one is investigating why the cdc is posting fake info (other than to push their vaccine agenda which we already know doesnt work) so they get away with it like they have been doing since the start of covid. And we are all supposed to just believe what they say and take the vaccine without question based on lies and disinformation. Not sure why anyone even trusts the cdc anymore or what we can do to have honest people take over and really tell us what is going on.

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 10:49 am

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

Like I said previously, Israel is different than America because they had multiple lockdowns and very few people even got covid the first time (someone mentioned less than a million which is nothing compared to the millions of people in America who got covid and recovered). So people in Israel who are now getting covid are presumably vaccinated already but getting covid for the first time.
In America, there is no separate test for the delta variant so there is no way to know if its affecting vaccinated people less than non-vaccinated people. Its all lies and corruption here but no one is investigating why the cdc is posting fake info (other than to push their vaccine agenda which we already know doesnt work) so they get away with it like they have been doing since the start of covid. And we are all supposed to just believe what they say and take the vaccine without question based on lies and disinformation. Not sure why anyone even trusts the cdc anymore or what we can do to have honest people take over and really tell us what is going on.

So I could have gotten HCQ when I had coronavirus but I had tachycardia and was afraid to use it. Even those who favored HCQ for political reasons were not telling people to check into a hospital, go on a heart monitor, and take it under medical supervision. It was more or less DIY coronavirus treatment.
The hereidi community in Israel formed an organization that treated the virus at home rather than sending people to hospitals that would neglect them and that had mixed results. Not everyone survived but at least nobody could claim that coronavirus doesn't kill people, hospitals do.
I would imagine that eventually some better treatments will be developed but also some people who want nothing to do with big pharma will go underground and get black market drugs.
I don't know that there is anything proven yet but it appears that places with fewer vaccinated people have a higher infection rate. At the same time, my neighborhood has a very low vaccination rate but there isn't much infection here BH which may be due to the fact that most people here had the virus.

amother

Melon

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:00 am

southernbubby wrote:

Regarding the bolded, can you provide the source where people who are not vaccinated are getting covid at a higher rate than vaccinated people? And does that mean that the non-vaccinated people who are getting sick never had covid to begin with and are now getting it for the first time or they had covid already but are getting it again (which would make no sense considering that they have antibodies and/or T-cells)?
Or is this just another ploy to push the vaccine that we know isnt working and many vaccinated people are getting sick even with the vaccine?

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:16 am

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

I don't know how to link things other than copy paste and even that just failed but just look at the countries getting heavily hit now. At first it appeared that they escaped it but now they are getting clobbered. Nobody in those places has any immunity.

amother

Melon

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:22 am

southernbubby wrote:

That is not what I am hearing which is why I asked you for sources. Please provide them so we know what you are referring to (of course, its possible that your sources are falsifying information just like the cdc and researchers are falsifying information but who knows whats really going on in the world as the vaccine is being pushed even if the evidence shows that it doesnt work and we dont even know what the long term effects are yet).

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:43 am

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

I explained my technical difficulties but from everything that I read daily, the virus is spreading and the worst spread is in poor countries where few people are vaccinated and nobody had the virus. It was like that this past fall and winter here in America.
So don't believe me or anything else that the media says unless it's an anti-vax source. All viruses work this way. Look at what happened when the measles outbreak hit. It didn't spread like wildfire among people who had taken both doses of vaccine because they were immune. HCQ is prophylactic against malaria; otherwise tourists have no way to fight it on their own. I took the vaccine and am planning on moving to Florida where the rate of Covid infection is high and it's a red state so vaccination rates are low. It's sad that partisan ism plays a role. Believe it or not, the virus is deadly but I know that the RW loves the expression "fear mongering" and I have a feeling that in countries where there is no lack of HCQ, they would prefer to get the vaccine.

Last edited by southernbubby on Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Peachpuff

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 11:43 am

Sampling is always how research is done—you get a large enough sample, you can extrapolate to the broader picture. That’s not lying, that’s how research works.

In terms of those who are unvaccinated contracting covid at higher rates than those who are vaccinated (and becoming sicker from it), literally every public health source and story about what’s happening in the hospitals is reporting that—from multiple countries. Why is this so hard to accept? Here is an interview about the situation sadly unfolding in Alabama, where only 1/3 of the population is fully vaccinated— Dr. Michael Saag, a professor of medicine in the Division of Infectious Diseases at University of Alabama Birmingham, explains things very clearly:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....e=amp

One excerpt that is especially pointed (but the whole thing is worth reading): “In May of 2021, in the United States, 18,000 people died from COVID. 17,850 of those folks were not vaccinated. That 99.2 percent. In June, same story. Ten thousand people died, 99.2 percent were not vaccinated. And among the people who were vaccinated and died, those individuals were mostly immunocompromised, meaning they had solid organ transplants where the immunity from the vaccine wasn’t strong enough to protect them from progressive disease. For those who were unvaccinated, that have no pre-existing immunity, so they’re totally vulnerable. This is a public healthy emergency right now -- a true emergency. I know you’re tired of hearing that, but that’s what we’re dealing with. And people with public health expertise would be derelict in our duties if we didn’t sound the alarm. This is an emergency right now.”

The vaccines offer protection. They are our best bet to prevent ourselves from becoming very sick with covid. They give our immune systems a head start in the event we catch SARS-CoV-2, rather than only having to rely on whatever medicines/supplements we think will treat the infection.

Here is the link to the Times of Israel piece mentioned earlier, noting lower rate of preventing infection:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....rain/

Notably, “Israel’s research agreed, at least, that the shot was highly effective in avoiding serious illness, at 91.4% effectiveness.”

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:30 pm

amother [ Latte ] wrote:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/sen-ron-johnson-data-israel-shows-84-new-covid-cases-vaccinated-individuals-video/

The effectiveness of the pfizer vaccine keeps dropping in Israel.

This article is an opinion piece, not a study. So if 1000 people are vaccinated and 900 don't catch Covid but of the 100 who do catch it 84 were vaccinated, why are we not mentioning that large group who didn't catch it?

amother

Babyblue

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ Latte ] wrote:

Financial motives.

Ok so I stopped posting once OP said that she doesn't want sources and that she wants to base her conclusions on her random observation. But I have to questions this post-

I had long conversations with my primary care doctor, obgyn (I am pregnant and my Dr is a maternal fetal specialist) and another specialist who I see for a a health condition, about whether I should take it or not.

What financial motives did they have? They did not receive a penny from the vaccine I took in Walgreens.

These are doctors whom I have long-term relationships with and who I trust with my life. They have helped me make many decisions in the past, and alot more significant than whether to take a vaccine or not. I honestly believe they have my best interests in mind and would not recommend something because of money.

amother

Latte

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 1:32 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

The medical institution stands to make billions off this. And they are recommending it. Unfortunately many doctors are following along their recommendations, maybe out of fear, maybe because they are used to following them, and therefore recommending the vaccine as well.