Home

If you work in a corporate environment (real corporate)
1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Working Women


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 7:59 pm
Like thousands and thousands of employees
And you identify as yeshivish or very frum...
How do you relate to the people around you? Your neighbors, friends etc?
I feel like nobody I know is in my position, none of them understand what I do and it can get very lonely at times.
Sometimes I feel like I relate to the people who I work with more than I relate to my friends/neighbors/family, which is really sad.
Back to top

amother




Skyblue
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:04 pm
Yes both my husband and I do. My family and friends are mainstream yeshivish (kollel, rebbeim, sheitel macher, own business, real estate). It is hard. I feel like I don't really belong at work or in the community. But it's okay. I'm working on finding new friends and getting more comfortable with who I am at the same time.
Back to top

amother




Anemone
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:12 pm
I work in a tech company, not Jewish, so maybe thats not real corporate, but it's interesting that you feel that way.

I literally have zero interest in making friends with my coworkers or spending any after hours time with them. I don't work with any jews.

They don't live my lifestyle and we have very little in common. Most of my friends are frum moms who also work either in the frum community or secular world.
Back to top

sigree




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:16 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Like thousands and thousands of employees
And you identify as yeshivish or very frum...
How do you relate to the people around you? Your neighbors, friends etc?
I feel like nobody I know is in my position, none of them understand what I do and it can get very lonely at times.
Sometimes I feel like I relate to the people who I work with more than I relate to my friends/neighbors/family, which is really sad.


I often feel the same way. Neither at home with my coworkers nor my community. Pm me if you want yo be corporate friends
Back to top

amother




Lemonlime
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:19 pm
I can relate, op.
Back to top

amother




DarkGray
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:21 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Like thousands and thousands of employees
And you identify as yeshivish or very frum...
How do you relate to the people around you? Your neighbors, friends etc?
I feel like nobody I know is in my position, none of them understand what I do and it can get very lonely at times.
Sometimes I feel like I relate to the people who I work with more than I relate to my friends/neighbors/family, which is really sad.


I'm probably one of very few jews, let alone orthodox jews out of 8k people in 4 states. I think there was a time before my generation when there were more jews--even observant jews, but not these days.

I also find I relate better to people I work with than outside of work, not that it's great--because obviously the religion/diet/cultural aspects in that regard aren't something we can relate to each other on.

I don't know that I find it sad, but it is hard when I don't feel like other jewish/frum people really understand me. And some of that are gender schemas. I'm not masculine at all, but since I work in a male dominated STEM field, I will speak up in front of men and I won't be typically as high pitched and demure and "sweet" as typical women in my community. I think this shakes up both the men and women lol. (And no I'm not masculine or angry, but I think because I'm not AS stereotypically feminine, it's intimidating. So, I just don't have that issue (as often--there's always covert gender bias) when I deal with people at work.)

Also, ironically, being in a community of more traditional gender roles, one would think my ex basically leaving me to be the man and woman for our children while he half-azzes his visitation and leaves me footing the bills would upset my community more, but no, it upsets most of the secular/non jewish men I work with the most.
Back to top

amother




Maize
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:29 pm
I started working for a frum employer but the company I worked for was aquistioned by a public company. There over 3,000 employees but we have multiple office locations. I still work with the same people. We have all types, including frum employees. I do not have any close relationships with any of my coworkers. That is the first time I have ever experienced that. It can feel lonely sometimes . There are so many people I have no idea who they are or what they do. I go to work, do my job and leave.
I do have a circle of friends outside of work though.
Back to top

amother




Hyssop
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:35 pm
amother [ Anemone ] wrote:
I work in a tech company, not Jewish, so maybe thats not real corporate, but it's interesting that you feel that way.

I literally have zero interest in making friends with my coworkers or spending any after hours time with them. I don't work with any jews.

They don't live my lifestyle and we have very little in common. Most of my friends are frum moms who also work either in the frum community or secular world.


Same here, but I'm a friendly person and I tend to shmooze with my non Jewish co-workers. I don't feel so out of place because of that.
Back to top

amother




Azure
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 8:37 pm
I was very lucky to work in a separate office in the building with another few frum girls. Our company had over 50,000 employees. I can see how it would be very lonely if you didn't work next to some more frum people.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 9:15 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
I was very lucky to work in a separate office in the building with another few frum girls. Our company had over 50,000 employees. I can see how it would be very lonely if you didn't work next to some more frum people.

So I actually mean the opposite- Sometimes I feel less lonely at work than I do in real life lol. At work I have my coworkers who are like-minded people who respect my skill set and admire my accomplishments.
My friends/neighbors... nothing
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 9:19 pm
amother [ Skyblue ] wrote:
Yes both my husband and I do. My family and friends are mainstream yeshivish (kollel, rebbeim, sheitel macher, own business, real estate). It is hard. I feel like I don't really belong at work or in the community. But it's okay. I'm working on finding new friends and getting more comfortable with who I am at the same time.

How do you do that? Is it more about just learning how to relate to people on different levels? Or finding friends who are more like you?
Back to top

amother




Skyblue
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 9:37 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How do you do that? Is it more about just learning how to relate to people on different levels? Or finding friends who are more like you?



Both. Part of me feels like a bit out of outcast. I feel (dont know!) That neighbours and friends look down on my husband and I for not being in Klei kodesh or at least working within the community. I am working on not caring, giving myself and my husband pep talks. And yes it is harder when the secular world acknowledges and respects your accomplishments and neighbours snub you for wearing the wrong color shirt. I am super friendly with colleagues but there will always be that divide (kosher, shabbos).
Luckily there are alot of professionals in my community also so I am trying to be more friendly with people in that crowd.
Back to top

EMEN




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 9:57 pm
The book 'Making it Work' addressed this topic

https://www.amazon.com/Making-.....54081
Back to top

amother




Snow
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 10:01 pm
I get it, OP. I'm the only observant Jewish individual in a company of thousands of employees across the state. There are only a handful of Jewish employees as it is. And in our small frum community, I can only think of 2 other women who truly work full time (40+ hours per week). Childcare is lacking. I don't have time to socialize (unless it's Shabbos). Sunday is the household chores and prep for the week day. it's lonely, and I don't think that anyone truly understands, for even the other 2 full time working women here have more flexibility.

Still, I wouldn't give it up. BH while we're still on the lower end of middle class, I'm grateful to be off programs and to have my own insurance (even though we pay so much for it). But for me, more difficult than the social piece, is the stress of erev shabbos.
Back to top

tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 10:14 pm
What’s fake corporate?
My work experience has more often been “working with corporate” than “in corporate” but I actually like being corporate, if you know what I mean Smile. I enjoyed dressing in white shirts and blazers, carrying my laptop or iPad, and speaking professional jargon with other people in suits (though the handshaking situation was always so hard for me🙈). I so prefer professional clients who are polite and honest. I have no problem switching off to friendly, neighborhood chat when I’m home.
Back to top

amother




Anemone
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 10:17 pm
amother [ Hyssop ] wrote:
Same here, but I'm a friendly person and I tend to shmooze with my non Jewish co-workers. I don't feel so out of place because of that.


I'm very friendly at work but that's where it ends. I always volunteer to help others with work projects etc. My team likes me very much.

I learned the hard way. I used to go out with them when they had get togethers because I thought it would be good for me career wise etc. I also used to hide my jewishness and try not to be different in any way.

It backfired. My religious rights started getting eroded at which point I stopped being chummy with coworkers outside of work and started advocating for myself religious wise.

For example, a coworker was trying to get me to sign up for a x-mas party. I told them politely that the food is not kosher and it's after hours and I can't attend because I need to be home for my children. If it had been my boss then I may have gone for a bit but he didn't care or ask me to come so I didn't see the point in paying for a plate of food that I can't eat and spending an evening away from my family for people I am not friends with.

Another example, I used to pretend the cursing didn't bother me and that caused people to be really crude around me. When I realized that if I used alternate words when they cursed they would start being more respectful, I did that and it helped a lot. For example Joe says "I effed up the report" I respond "yes, I've messed up those reports also" he eventually got the message that I don't curse and he stopped doing it in front of me for the most part.
Back to top

amother




Raspberry
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 10:24 pm
I work for a large state agency and have no frum colleagues in own department of any of the departments that are immediately associated with mine. There are other frum people in the agency, but in different locations, etc, and I never run into them. I'm very friendly with my colleagues, and they certainly know I'm Orthodox--they are aware of shabbos, kashrus, etc, after years of working together.

However, I am always aware that though they have met my family, know about my schedule considerations, and know I plan our trips to bring food, etc, on many levels they don't have the faintest idea what my life is like. They don't know about mikvah, hair covering, etc. They don't understand what it means to be descended from Holocaust survivors, how central our religion is in ALL of our decision making, how paying tuition is our number one priority and affects every single aspect of our lives, what the holidays are really like (you can't understand Pesach if you don't live it!), etc. I'm very aware of this divide though on many levels I consider them my friends.

Most of my friends work in environments similar to mine, though different types of employers, and I don't feel like my job and work life separate me from my friends.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 1:01 pm
I work for a very large govt agency, so it's not "corporate" in the sense of " we're in this to make heaps and heaps of dough in any way we can" but it is in the sense that this is not your neighborhood Judaica store, Bais Yaakov school or even your Judaica factory. As far as I can tell I'm the only frum woman working on my floor and I'm the only frum person in my bureau. There used to be a few frum men in another division but since we didn't work together, the most I had to do with them was to let them know that the cake on the counter is from my son's bar mitzvah and they're welcome to partake.

Over the years I made friends with various coworkers. The more closely I worked with them the more likely we were to become friends, assuming that our personalities clicked, and the more likely it was that we would stay in touch if they left the agency. For a good number of years there was one other frum woman working in my division, and we're still in touch even though she left the agency some time back. I was working for quite a few years before she was hired, and what a mechayeh it was for me when she was hired! Fortunately she is a very nice person and we became friends. There were two or three other frum women in the agency but since they were in different divisions and we seldom saw each other, we remained acquaintances who knew each other to say hello to if we passed in the hall, but that was it. My other work friends are of a variety of ethnicities and races.

Most of the people I have anything to do with are aware that I leave early Fridays, am out on all Jewish holidays, and keep kosher, even if they're not sure what that means. I was so touched when one Friday afternoon in the summer a coworker said to me in a worried tone "why are you still here? Don't you have to leave?" The office "party lady" makes sure to buy some kosher goodies and point them out to me when she makes a party.

I don't get into major religious discussions with most coworkers, not even the ones who have become friends, but the people who became my friends have a lot of values in common with me. They want better for their kids than for themselves, they have and enforce rules for their children's behavior, they 're honest, work hard, and are faithful spouses and good citizens. There are of course some lowlife sleazebuckets as there will be in any large group; I'm not friends with them.

It's true that I have to forego going out for drinks with the crew after work or to some entertainment if we're oot for a week-long conference, but I'd probably have no interest in doing so even if they were frum. At the end of my work day, I just want to go home. And once I had kids, staying out after work was a non-starter in any case.

I don't need my colleagues to understand everything about my life as an observant Jew. I don't understand everything about their life as whatever group they're members of. All I need is for them to place no impediments in my path. B"H for the most part this has worked out. Here and there a course or conference I couldn't attend at all or in part because of travel on Shabbat, parties I couldn't attend, and of course I always had to bring my own food wherever I went. I can't complain.
Back to top

Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 1:50 pm
I don't work in a corporation. But not everyone works in the same profession. I don't fully understand your question. I would've assumed people want to keep work and personal life separate. Ideally work should not consume our whole life, and when we leave at the end of the day/week, its nice to leave that behind and chill with family and friends. OTOH, it's also interesting to hear about other peoples jobs. Just this week I got to meet a neighbor and was shmoozing about her job in nursing. There is enough to talk about , be it personal or work related.
Back to top

amother




Mulberry
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 1:54 pm
I found I belonged in both worlds. I "got" my co-workers and they "got" me. We all had interests in the intricacies of our job. Our team meetings were fun and productive. There was respect for the accomplishments of any team member. I didn't feel left out at all when I skipped the Xmas party or beach get-together. They understood. And whoever didn't, I really didn't care.
And when I went home I delivered the new Mom on my block her dinner and reviewed the Torah lessons with my kids and went shopping at the kosher supermarket.
On Shabbos I socialized with my community friends and went back to work again Monday morning.
Back to top
1, 2  Next Recent Topics

Page 1 of 2 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Working Women

Related Topics Replies Last Post
How does annual salary vs hourly work?
by amother
34 Today at 12:25 am View last post
This is why you need to work
by amother
104 Fri, Oct 15 2021, 2:15 pm View last post
Real or fake diamond jewelry?
by amother
60 Fri, Oct 15 2021, 11:00 am View last post
Real gold, fake Diamond jewelry?
by amother
0 Fri, Oct 15 2021, 10:49 am View last post
Having time to cook for Shabbos and work? 21 Wed, Oct 13 2021, 2:12 pm View last post