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Emunah and bitachon regarding family size
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 10:55 pm
We bh have five children. We live paycheck to paycheck. Expenses keep going up as the kids get older. Am I lacking in bitachon, if I don't want more children because I am worried about being able to afford them?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jul 25 2021, 11:57 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
We bh have five children. We live paycheck to paycheck. Expenses keep going up as the kids get older. Am I lacking in bitachon, if I don't want more children because I am worried about being able to afford them?


Somehow it works out. There are numerous stories of people who got new parnassa opportunities every time that they had another baby.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:17 am
southernbubby wrote:
Somehow it works out. There are numerous stories of people who got new parnassa opportunities every time that they had another baby.


So am I lacking in bitachon?
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amother




Taupe
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:29 am
southernbubby wrote:
Somehow it works out. There are numerous stories of people who got new parnassa opportunities every time that they had another baby.


ppl always say this, but this didnt work for my parents...I grew up in poverty..large famiky...my parents couldnt afford things...

also, there are many ppl with large families asking for tzedaka through kupat hair or esras yisroel....I have nothing against these families but why didnt they get this bracha??why didnt my parents have this bracha?
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amother




Taupe
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:32 am
op I think this is a question for a high level rav who understands about anxiety/financial struggles etc ....you can tell him all your details to let him tell you about bitachon and the right thoughts/actions here....maybe rabbi yy jacobson or...
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amother




Phlox
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:35 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So am I lacking in bitachon?

Of course not. It would make just as much sense to argue that in your current position, your hishtadlus would be to get a heter for birth control, and having bitachon means believing that if you're meant to have another baby it will happen anyway.
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amother




Arcticblue
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:37 am
OP, I have posted many questions about emunah and bitachom and the responses almost alyways say that emunah doesn't mean that things will work out. Emunah means that when things don't go as we want, we still believe that it is hashems plan.
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 1:01 am
Probably depends on whether you think you need to have a compelling reason to go on birth control or if you believe that you are allowed to decide when you are done growing your family. I know there are very different approaches to this in different communities.
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Ellie7




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 1:02 am
southernbubby wrote:
Somehow it works out. There are numerous stories of people who got new parnassa opportunities every time that they had another baby.


Except when it totally doesn’t work out and your children suffer. I say from personal experience.

Emunah and bitachon do not mean ignoring reality and believing Hashem will be your fairy godmother.
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amother




Silver
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 2:00 am
Ellie7 wrote:
Except when it totally doesn’t work out and your children suffer. I say from personal experience.

Emunah and bitachon do not mean ignoring reality and believing Hashem will be your fairy godmother.

Exactly
After our last child was born, money started to feel tight. Combined with other reasons, we felt our family was complete.
I don't believe in not having enough for our existing children, just to bring another child into the world. The children I already have need food and clothing, and beds to sleep in and bedrooms in the house, etc.
Hashem is not going to magically send me a mansion.
These are our family finances and it's my responsibility as a parent to make it work.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:18 am
southernbubby wrote:
Somehow it works out. There are numerous stories of people who got new parnassa opportunities every time that they had another baby.
And then there are the rest of the families where this does not happen, not even close.
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amother




Catmint
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:27 am
Ellie7 wrote:
Except when it totally doesn’t work out and your children suffer. I say from personal experience.

Emunah and bitachon do not mean ignoring reality and believing Hashem will be your fairy godmother.


It's asur to do family planning because of finances. You need a heter from a rav. Dh probably can't know. And yes it is a lack of emunah and bitcahon. No one is perfect in every area.
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amother




Tiffanyblue
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:30 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
Exactly
After our last child was born, money started to feel tight. Combined with other reasons, we felt our family was complete.
I don't believe in not having enough for our existing children, just to bring another child into the world. The children I already have need food and clothing, and beds to sleep in and bedrooms in the house, etc.
Hashem is not going to magically send me a mansion.

These are our family finances and it's my responsibility as a parent to make it work.

Except that's what happened to me. Hashem DID magically send me a mansion. You'd be surprised what Hashem can do.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:33 am
amother [ Catmint ] wrote:
It's asur to do family planning because of finances. You need a heter from a rav. Dh probably can't know. And yes it is a lack of emunah and bitcahon. No one is perfect in every area.


In what circles? Or is it straight out halacha?
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amother




Alyssum
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:37 am
amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote:
Except that's what happened to me. Hashem DID magically send me a mansion. You'd be surprised what Hashem can do.


I’m so glad for you. But for many of us that was not the case. My husband was out of a job after my youngest was born. It’s very easy for those that had Nissim to say everyone will. But guess what? That’s not in the plans for everyone apparently
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amother




Catmint
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:40 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In what circles? Or is it straight out halacha?


Straight halacha. But you can discuss your particular situation with a rav and he will help you pasken for your situation.
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amother




Arcticblue
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:41 am
amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote:
Except that's what happened to me. Hashem DID magically send me a mansion. You'd be surprised what Hashem can do.



What's your point?

So since it worked out for you do you believe that across the board hashem magically extends families finances when they have more children because after all, it happened to you?

Isn't this a very shallow and illogical way of thinking? What would you say to all the growing families that are suffering financially???
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amother




Candycane
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:47 am
amother [ Catmint ] wrote:
Straight halacha. But you can discuss your particular situation with a rav and he will help you pasken for your situation.


According to your rabbanim.
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amother




Arcticblue
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:49 am
amother [ Catmint ] wrote:
Straight halacha. But you can discuss your particular situation with a rav and he will help you pasken for your situation.



OP, there are plenty of frum families that don't ask for a heter to stop having babies. I think many rabbanim say that the mitzvah of pru urivu is to have a child of each gender.

But here's the bottom line op:

Whatever you decision you make, please don't be fooled by the foolishness of those who say that hashem automatically will increase your income as you need more money because of increasing family size. Inspite of what some here believe, we don't know hashems cheshbon or how he works. There are many large families that are getting tomchei shabbos packages and can't afford tuition.

If you decide to have another child, that's a beautiful thing. But plz don't think that hashem will magically give you more money just because your expenses went up.
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amother




Silver
 

Post Mon, Jul 26 2021, 8:49 am
amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote:
Except that's what happened to me. Hashem DID magically send me a mansion. You'd be surprised what Hashem can do.

I'm glad for you. I truly am. To see an outright miracle like that in your life is pretty amazing.

But I know at least a dozen families who have more kids than they can afford and the kids are really suffering. No privacy for them, no money for extras, no room in the car for all the kids so they literally can never spend time together as a family unless they are at home.
They cant pay tuition. They cant have guests.

Sorry, but these things are important to me and I am not willing to live like that.
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