Emunah and bitachon regarding family size

Ema of 5

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 11:38 am

amother [ Catmint ] wrote:

Yes. This is true. If dh will know about it then a rav need to be consulted.
Otherwise you can lie to dh and pretend you are experiencing infertility.

I’m sorry, what???? Lie to your husband about using bc? Pretend your are experiencing infertility???? What rav holds this way???? (And yes, it is incumbent upon YOU to provide the source, not those who are asking for one.)

Ema of 5

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 11:40 am

amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote:

I know quite a few families with only two or three kids who were really struggling financially. It's not necessarily related to how many children you have.

Anyways, tzedakah is not the end of the world. Hashem guarantees that there will always be poor people so there needs to be someone to get our maaser Smile

.

Also, in the US today (where I live) you're sometimes better off with less money .... not a value judgment, just a fact.

That is true, but that doesn’t mean that we are supposed to willingly put ourselves in a situation where we live off of tzedaka.

nicetoknow

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 11:44 am

OP, here's a link to a recently published article from a few months back on the Lubavitcher Rebbe's discussions on this your question. https://derher.org/wp-content/.....g.pdf

It's in English. I struggle with this question a lot and found comfort in reading it.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 11:45 am

It’s probably not so black and white.

If lack of $ means mom has to work out of the house for longer hours, or will be stressed etc, it leads to mental and possibly physical issues which definitely are reasons to hold off on having babies.

farmom

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 11:57 am

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

Wow. This is so foreign to me. Every child in my family was a wanted (and cherished) child. When my heart was full, I just stopped. I think we spoke with a rabbi along the way about the logistics, but there was no way I was going to have a child that I didn’t want. I really don’t understand. Not financial - emotional. How can someone coerce you into having another child?

I just want to comment here, (and not to negate your personal feeling and experiences!), that in (most? Barring dysfunctional circumstances) families with many children, every child is a wanted and cherished child. And the heart expands with more and more love for each child. Of course, not talking about being forced to have a child one doesn't want, but the expectations of family size may just be very different.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:07 pm

farmom wrote:

If I felt forced to get pregnant and give birth before I feel ready physically and mentally, I would be extremely resentful.

farmom

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:26 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

If I felt forced to get pregnant and give birth before I feel ready physically and mentally, I would be extremely resentful.

As would I!

But in certain communities, the mother expects to have many children. There may be more support; emotional, verbal, financial, practical. And she hopefully doesn't feel forced to have another baby, but is doing it out of her own will and desire.

I guess I was just trying to push back against the idea that only in small families is every child cherished.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:28 pm

farmom wrote:

Most girls think they’ll have a lot of babies. Then they be”h get married and have a baby or two and see what parenting is all about and realize they need to do it in a safe, optimal way for mom and family.

amother

Ballota

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 12:49 pm

farmom wrote:

Yes, absolutely. There is community norm, and the mom’s health, and the strength of the marriage and the finances, and the mitzvah of Peru urevu etc. I understand. I just had a totality of feeling. And I didn’t think it was right to the child to have more children once I wasn’t feeling motivated about it anymore. It’s nuanced. I have a neighbor who is in a bad situation, she’s very poor and has a fairly dysfunctional family, and she wants to have 10 kids because that’s the number she had in her head growing up. I’m a frum person, and I’m not going to tell her not to do that, but I’m also an intelligent person, and I think she should stop having children. (She has many already kneina hara).

amother

Papayawhip

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 1:04 pm

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

ppl always say this, but this didnt work for my parents...I grew up in poverty..large famiky...my parents couldnt afford things...

also, there are many ppl with large families asking for tzedaka through kupat hair or esras yisroel....I have nothing against these families but why didnt they get this bracha??why didnt my parents have this bracha?

Oy, I feel bad but you missed the point.
Your parents were supposed to struggle with parnassah. They were never supposed to have enough money.
Hashem would have made this happen whether they had 2 kids or 12 kids. You need to re-wire the way you are looking at the situation.
Chas v'shalom to think that having more children is what caused their poverty.

Ema of 5

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 1:18 pm

amother [ Papayawhip ] wrote:

How could you possibly know that?

amother

Hibiscus

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 1:22 pm

amother [ Grape ] wrote:

Is this said in a shiur ? Is there a link for this ?

https://rebgershonribner.com/

He mentioned it more than once. It’s from the Steipler. Listen to “Rags to Riches” for one example.

amother

Moonstone

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 1:51 pm

Somebody just approached my husband this week for money for a family with 20 children.

Hello, there's a reason why most of us don't have 20 children, if we can't sponsor our own, why should I sponsor others?

He gave him money either way, DH is a nice person.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:07 pm

amother [ Catmint ] wrote:

Source is Shulchan Aruch.

I asked earlier if you had a more specific source so I could go look it up.
Id really like to see if the shulchan aruch has a source for BC because of finances.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:23 pm

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

I have a very large family (by secular standards) and every single child was very much wanted and cherished and loved. I have really hard pregnancies so there is no way I would have had more if I didn't want them!

Mommyg8

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:24 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I asked earlier if you had a more specific source so I could go look it up.
Id really like to see if the shulchan aruch has a source for BC because of finances.

Most of us here are not that knowledgeable, but I'm sure you can call any litvish Rav for the source.

amother

Lightblue

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:28 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Most of us here are not that knowledgeable, but I'm sure you can call any litvish Rav for the source.

If someone posts that something is a halacha in the Shulchan Aruch, then she ought to know where it is.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:32 pm

amother [ Moonstone ] wrote:

So there was one member in our family that used all our maaser money.... They were just a disaster in every way.... two kids. And I know plenty of large families that are doing very well financially. It's not necessarily a correlation.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jul 26 2021, 4:32 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Most of us here are not that knowledgeable, but I'm sure you can call any litvish Rav for the source.

Im sorry, thats not how it works. If that poster said it was in shulcha aruch, she should know where in the shulchan aruch, otherwise her "source" just sounds made up.