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What’s the point of high school (girls)
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jul 27 2021, 9:45 am
DrMom wrote:
All this seems like a result of bad planning. I understood that all Jewish education in Lakewood is overseen by some sort of central Vaad. Can't they track the growth rate of the Jewish community there and predict how many classrooms will be needed 4 or 8 years down the road, and encourage the establishment of new schools accordingly? Seems like it would eliminate a lot of hardship and anguish for the community's students and parents.


They do predict. Opening schools is political. And you need to find people who want to do this.

The elementary school situation is much better than the highschool situation although not perfect.
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amother




Lily
 

Post Tue, Jul 27 2021, 10:27 am
Elfrida wrote:
The question is relevant because in an earlier post the OP mentioned one school she sid not apply to because this school had a rule that mothers should only come to the school wearing a sheital. Since she does not cover with a sheital, there was no point applying to this school.

Presumably she covers with a mitpachat of some kind.

Is there really a school that won't accept a student because her mother fully covers her hair, just not with a wig? I've never heard of that rule. Stockings, yes. Covering hair fully, yes. But a mitpachat/tichel not being acceptable??
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jul 27 2021, 10:29 am
Elfrida wrote:
The question is relevant because in an earlier post the OP mentioned one school she sid not apply to because this school had a rule that mothers should only come to the school wearing a sheital. Since she does not cover with a sheital, there was no point applying to this school.

Presumably she covers with a mitpachat of some kind.


Yes there's a school in Lakewood that requires mothers to be wearing a sheitel, IIUC even for carpooling. I cover my hair (sheitel, snood, pretied, etc..) and we didn't apply there either for our girls, because I couldn't fathom sending my girls to a school that needed to box me in so much.

The issue OP is facing is that all of Lakewood's schools are just flooded with applicants.

I have a niece who will start high school in September B"EH, and we were all just FLOORED because she didn't get into the high school my DD's and tons of nieces went to. B"H she got into another excellent school. I'm sure it was a space issue, otherwise, makes no sense at all. (she didn't get into the sheitel-requiring school either.)
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jul 27 2021, 10:34 am
amother [ Lily ] wrote:
Is there really a school that won't accept a student because her mother fully covers her hair, just not with a wig? I've never heard of that rule. Stockings, yes. Covering hair fully, yes. But a mitpachat/tichel not being acceptable??


I don't think any school in Lakewood has a problem with a mitpachat/tichel as a head covering. No one would say it's not tznius, that's for sure.

But some schools are certain types, and their student body not so diverse. They tend to accept students who follow a similar path, with similar minhagim.

For example, if I were to apply to Bais Leah, the local heimish/chassidish school, it's likely my kids wouldn't get accepted (though you never know - I happen to have pull there. I told my DD we really should consider it, as it's proximity to my home would make it super-convenient. Just kidding, of course.)
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amother




Pink
 

Post Sun, Aug 01 2021, 10:48 am
Anyone considered moving or sending to Passaic? I haven’t heard that it’s a problem getting into the BYP high school, except if there are girls who don’t belong. Housing here is more expensive than Lakewood, but the kids have a place.
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amother




Sunflower
 

Post Sun, Aug 01 2021, 10:51 am
amother [ Lily ] wrote:
Is there really a school that won't accept a student because her mother fully covers her hair, just not with a wig? I've never heard of that rule. Stockings, yes. Covering hair fully, yes. But a mitpachat/tichel not being acceptable??


I heard some schools have a rule you must pick up your kids only in a sheitel.
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barbara1




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 01 2021, 1:23 pm
amother [ Hyssop ] wrote:
There are plenty of reasons to keep studying. Just because the admissions system where you live is messed up is no reason to hope that a girl is denied an education.

I'm really sorry that the schools seem so unfair and overcrowded where you are. I can see why it would leave a bad taste in your mouth, but please don't give up.


Lakewoods system and many other so called chareidei systems are extremely messed up and causing allot of damage to our children and we are all in denial that we can't do anything when our community has chesed organizations for just about everything and yet when it comes to our precious children we cant be there for them.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 01 2021, 1:32 pm
barbara1 wrote:
Lakewoods system and many other so called chareidei systems are extremely messed up and causing allot of damage to our children and we are all in denial that we can't do anything when our community has chesed organizations for just about everything and yet when it comes to our precious children we cant be there for them.

Yep! All those chareidim are so messed up.
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Rosemarie




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 01 2021, 8:02 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
snip...
My DD was very chilled out about not having a school to go to until I told her that if she is not excepted any were she will just work in her grandmother’s daycare. Now she is davening to get into a school, I think more then me.Usually at the last minute some thing happens that most girls get into a school, what I don’t understand is why the Vaad can’t do this by July first, why stretch it out the whole summer. ...

I can't believe no one said anything about this! Why on earth would you take your carefree daughter who was not stressed about the situation and say something like this, making her stressed and worried, terrified that she will be a daycare helper at age 14 when all her friends are enjoying learning and company...!? I was feeling awful for your predicament the whole way through the thread, in agreement that the situation is untenable. But then you went and made me so upset! I simply cannot understand why you would do that to your poor daughter! You were stressed and worried so you felt the need to have your daughter in the same boat? What happened to trying to shelter our kids from as much pain as possible?

I know I sound very harsh here, but I really feel this was handled terribly and you can still fix it. Calm your daughter down that the situation will work out, she will have a school, and if it doesn't happen the first day of school, she will not have to be her grandmother's free labor. She can stay home, help you prepare for yom tov, do something she enjoys... And hopefully within a few days she will have a school. But she does not need to be carrying this pressure you just put on her! Please do your job as a mother and calm her down, take the load off her shoulders!
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amother




Eggshell
 

Post Sun, Aug 01 2021, 8:07 pm
barbara1 wrote:
Online school. Online school is allot cheaper will accept everyone.its time we do something to address this sick mentality of rejecting our children. We have organizations for everything and yet we it comes to our precious children a large part of our community is rejected by the lakewood school system.


I have sent my kids to a frum online school. It’s not simple for the kids to follow- especially at younger ages, they lose out on social interaction, and they essentially have to teach themselves the material. Or else I had to teach it to them.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 02 2021, 11:30 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Usually at the last minute some thing happens that most girls get into a school, what I don’t understand is why the Vaad can’t do this by July first, why stretch it out the whole summer.



I don't understand it either.

I was shmoozing with my SIL whose DD is going to 9th grade (B"H she is in a school) and she was telling me that there is absolutely no movement at all with the school situation. Since the letters were sent out to those who got in, nothing at all is happening, literally silence. My niece's good friend, a fine girl from a wonderful frum family, has no school yet...my DD's coworker, as yeshivish and fine as they come....her DD is not in a school.

The silence is just agonizing for these girls and their parents.

My heart goes out to all of them. Wish I could so something.
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amother




Broom
 

Post Mon, Aug 02 2021, 11:49 am
Chayalle wrote:
I don't understand it either.

I was shmoozing with my SIL whose DD is going to 9th grade (B"H she is in a school) and she was telling me that there is absolutely no movement at all with the school situation. Since the letters were sent out to those who got in, nothing at all is happening, literally silence. My niece's good friend, a fine girl from a wonderful frum family, has no school yet...my DD's coworker, as yeshivish and fine as they come....her DD is not in a school.

The silence is just agonizing for these girls and their parents.

My heart goes out to all of them. Wish I could so something.


It really depends. I am in contact with a school and they are figuring out the logistics for opening up another class (something they didn’t want to do initially as they are a small school). There is also the matter of not every girl fitting one school’s derech but at this point there isn’t a choice.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 02 2021, 12:28 pm
amother [ Broom ] wrote:
It really depends. I am in contact with a school and they are figuring out the logistics for opening up another class (something they didn’t want to do initially as they are a small school). There is also the matter of not every girl fitting one school’s derech but at this point there isn’t a choice.


I'm glad to hear that someone is trying to do something.

And yes, not every girl fits one school's derech. But something has to be done, because we definitely want to keep these girls on the derech.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 02 2021, 3:39 pm
The reason it takes so long is because no school wants to be first to take more because than they are pressured to take more and more
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 12:45 am
Pink- My aunt lives in Passaic and she told me that they stopped taking in OOT girls for high school, lets be logical there are 3 high school classes and 10 primary classes, I have no idea how many 8th grade classes are there but it does reach a point that you have to say no to OOT's


Rosemarie-Yes she could stay home and cook for Y"T, but will she? When she was home for Peasch Prep I gave her a very short list of things to do and came home from work to find nothing done. she assumed that not going to school means that she can do what ever she wants, I just brought her done to earth. she is now working as a counselor in her grandmother daycare and yes she is getting paid, she is liking the $$ and finding it not so bad if she has to be there until Sukkous. After Sukkous it would be a different story.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 1:02 am
A few years ago there was talk about small class sizes and how we must have them. I did a small amount of research and what I found is that on the high school level you can have 50 kids in a class and it's fine, except you have to teach differently then if you have 30 kids in a class. I asked a teacher who has over 40 girls in each of her classes if she had any lessons on how to teach bigger classes and she just laughed.

As Lakewood gets bigger we have to a just to it. If we are going to put 50 girls in a class we need to have teachers that can and know how to teach them. In NYC the public High Schools that are the ones people want to send to are not necessarily the smallest. Some of the more desired schools can have a few 1,000 students. While I am not really interested in sending to a school with 2,000 or more girls, I think that schools have to realize that they are a big school and a just to it, it would be better for everyone in the long run.

One of the biggest problem of starting a new girls High School is the cost. There are a lot of different ways to start a school that would not cost so much. But, are people going to be comfortable to send there? I know I would be wherry of sending to a school that does not confirm with what we call the norm. Yes, I know that is a problem with me but I am not the only one that you have to convince.
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amother




Hyssop
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 1:18 am
It seems that the MO community has much less of an issue because:
1. Growth rates are not as dramatic
2. The community is generally more affluent and can support expansion
3. Leadership is not concentrated among a few powerful people, so starting a new school doesn't require anyone's approval and
4. A less conformist culture means families are willing to send to a new school with kids who are not 100 percent like them.

So it's much harder for Lakewood to keep up. But there's one small change that can be copied from the MO system that would make a big difference. And that is, NO ONE gets an acceptance letter ANYWHERE until every child applying to high school has been placed. I'm no longer involved in what was called the BJE, but that's how they handled things, and it got schools to settle admissions issues by the end of March.
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chestnut




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 1:22 am
amother [ Sunflower ] wrote:
I heard some schools have a rule you must pick up your kids only in a sheitel.

As opposed to what - uncovered? Tichel? Snood?
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 2:18 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
A few years ago there was talk about small class sizes and how we must have them. I did a small amount of research and what I found is that on the high school level you can have 50 kids in a class and it's fine, except you have to teach differently then if you have 30 kids in a class. I asked a teacher who has over 40 girls in each of her classes if she had any lessons on how to teach bigger classes and she just laughed.

As Lakewood gets bigger we have to a just to it. If we are going to put 50 girls in a class we need to have teachers that can and know how to teach them. In NYC the public High Schools that are the ones people want to send to are not necessarily the smallest. Some of the more desired schools can have a few 1,000 students. While I am not really interested in sending to a school with 2,000 or more girls, I think that schools have to realize that they are a big school and a just to it, it would be better for everyone in the long run.

One of the biggest problem of starting a new girls High School is the cost. There are a lot of different ways to start a school that would not cost so much. But, are people going to be comfortable to send there? I know I would be wherry of sending to a school that does not confirm with what we call the norm. Yes, I know that is a problem with me but I am not the only one that you have to convince.


As much as I feel for the girls not in school, my whole body wants to scream NO WAY to this idea.

Our schools are not like public schools. We are not in the business just to teach classrooms. We want to transmit the Mesorah to our girls, we want to do it in a way that there is a personal feel and connection, and we want to meet their emotional and spiritual needs. This cannot be done in classrooms of 50 students.

I know of high schools that ran this way, I know students who went there and came out feeling like a factory item. It did not do much good for their neshamos.

We stand to lose way too much if we accept this kind of model.

We need more high schools, we have so much talent, we have mechanchim, we need it set up. We should not be shortchanged. We should not accept so little for our daughters.
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amother




Oxfordblue
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 2:45 pm
Chayalle wrote:
As much as I feel for the girls not in school, my whole body wants to scream NO WAY to this idea.

Our schools are not like public schools. We are not in the business just to teach classrooms. We want to transmit the Mesorah to our girls, we want to do it in a way that there is a personal feel and connection, and we want to meet their emotional and spiritual needs. This cannot be done in classrooms of 50 students.

I know of high schools that ran this way, I know students who went there and came out feeling like a factory item. It did not do much good for their neshamos.

We stand to lose way too much if we accept this kind of model.

We need more high schools, we have so much talent, we have mechanchim, we need it set up. We should not be shortchanged. We should not accept so little for our daughters.

Unfortunately, this is the reality in many Lakewood girls high schools today. 40+ girls to a class. It's not ok and even though I have no girls in high schools right now, my heart goes out to them. It's just not ok on any level.
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