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What’s the point of high school (girls)
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amother




Opal
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 2:51 pm
amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:
Unfortunately, this is the reality in many Lakewood girls high schools today. 40+ girls to a class. It's not ok and even though I have no girls in high schools right now, my heart goes out to them. It's just not ok on any level.

My class was 30+ and I thought it was big. This I can't even imagine.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 2:54 pm
amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:
Unfortunately, this is the reality in many Lakewood girls high schools today. 40+ girls to a class. It's not ok and even though I have no girls in high schools right now, my heart goes out to them. It's just not ok on any level.


My big girls went to high school in Lakewood with 25, 26 students per class.

And my little one is going to 8th grade B"EH. And I want to call her high school and beg them to take some of the girls who are not yet accepted to high school. And at the same time I want to beg them to keep the classes a normal size. My DD will be going there, and I know she NEEDS that.

Yikes. We need more classes, more schools. Not bigger classes, not factories.
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 2:55 pm
Chayalle wrote:
As much as I feel for the girls not in school, my whole body wants to scream NO WAY to this idea.

Our schools are not like public schools. We are not in the business just to teach classrooms. We want to transmit the Mesorah to our girls, we want to do it in a way that there is a personal feel and connection, and we want to meet their emotional and spiritual needs. This cannot be done in classrooms of 50 students.

I know of high schools that ran this way, I know students who went there and came out feeling like a factory item. It did not do much good for their neshamos.

We stand to lose way too much if we accept this kind of model.

We need more high schools, we have so much talent, we have mechanchim, we need it set up. We should not be shortchanged. We should not accept so little for our daughters.

I'm just a spectator in Lakewood threads, but I am so curious because of what I've read here. Do you think people would send to the new schools that are needed, if created? From what I've read here, no one wants the new schools; people only want the "established" schools, and sending to the new ones is a stigma because hey, how come your kid is there and not the "name brand" schools. I remember a thread not too long ago from a mother in either Lakewood or Monsey who was crying that no school in her whole town would accept her little neshamale, she had applied "everywhere", and a few pages in, she said she did not apply to ALL the schools, there were a few that she looked down upon and would not waste the 5 cents on the phone call to them.... so if new schools opened, would they be filled? Is it not better to open a new campus of an existing school? Like, Bnos Namebrand would open a campus for k-4 with many classes per grade and another campus for grands 5-8 with many classes per grade. By the way, my city has this. One school is very large so they moved into two separate campuses.
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 2:56 pm
amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:
Unfortunately, this is the reality in many Lakewood girls high schools today. 40+ girls to a class. It's not ok and even though I have no girls in high schools right now, my heart goes out to them. It's just not ok on any level.


True.
But currently we all know it's not ok, we all bemoan the 40+ in a class. And we all appeal to the other schools to keep the high school classes at 30.
But OP is describing a "system" or "ideal" of lechatchila putting 50 in a class. Of revamping the education system so that every high school can do it.
And I agree with Chayalle that that's not ok, even though it's not either ok that so many girls are without a school.
My daughter is in a school that has 28-32 per class. And I'm happy. It's large enough that there's room for girls to find their group and niche, yet the teachers are able to teach and notice. And even then, the teachers don't have it easy. Teaching 4 9th grade Chumash classes of 25 each, means teaching 100 girls Chumash. Teaching 4 classes of 45 each, means teaching 190 girls in an environment where the girls are crowded together and processed on a line.
My daughter's friends who go to certain schools don't have any relationships with teachers, so many get lost in the shuffle.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 3:02 pm
watergirl wrote:
I'm just a spectator in Lakewood threads, but I am so curious because of what I've read here. Do you think people would send to the new schools that are needed, if created? From what I've read here, no one wants the new schools; people only want the "established" schools, and sending to the new ones is a stigma because hey, how come your kid is there and not the "name brand" schools. I remember a thread not too long ago from a mother in either Lakewood or Monsey who was crying that no school in her whole town would accept her little neshamale, she had applied "everywhere", and a few pages in, she said she did not apply to ALL the schools, there were a few that she looked down upon and would not waste the 5 cents on the phone call to them.... so if new schools opened, would they be filled? Is it not better to open a new campus of an existing school? Like, Bnos Namebrand would open a campus for k-4 with many classes per grade and another campus for grands 5-8 with many classes per grade. By the way, my city has this. One school is very large so they moved into two separate campuses.


Alot depends on the school, who establishes it, who they attract - not necessarily how new or old they are. I dunno, it's like mazal.

For example, there's a new school in town Aderes, it's only around for maybe 3 years? I heard they got over 1000 applicants. People were literally banging the doors down. It's very popular.

Rebbetzin Paretsky of Bais Yaakov of Monsey is starting a school next year with two classes, and I heard she filled up very quickly.

So yes - we need new schools, and they should be set up with good people running them, so that people feel comfortable sending.
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amother




Melon
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 3:02 pm
watergirl wrote:
I'm just a spectator in Lakewood threads, but I am so curious because of what I've read here. Do you think people would send to the new schools that are needed, if created? From what I've read here, no one wants the new schools; people only want the "established" schools, and sending to the new ones is a stigma because hey, how come your kid is there and not the "name brand" schools. I remember a thread not too long ago from a mother in either Lakewood or Monsey who was crying that no school in her whole town would accept her little neshamale, she had applied "everywhere", and a few pages in, she said she did not apply to ALL the schools, there were a few that she looked down upon and would not waste the 5 cents on the phone call to them.... so if new schools opened, would they be filled? Is it not better to open a new campus of an existing school? Like, Bnos Namebrand would open a campus for k-4 with many classes per grade and another campus for grands 5-8 with many classes per grade. By the way, my city has this. One school is very large so they moved into two separate campuses.




There is a new high school opening. Meiras bais Yaakov mrs paretzky from by monsey. They are full 2 full classes 60 girls. So yes people send to new schools if the principal is well known and they trust her like aderes people knew Mrs Drillman so she filled up
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amother




Melon
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 3:04 pm
Ha chayelle we both wrote the same thing at the same time about meiras and aderes!! Smile
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 3:04 pm
amother [ Melon ] wrote:
Ha chayelle we both wrote the same thing at the same time about meiras and aderes!! Smile


Great minds think alike LOL
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 3:14 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Alot depends on the school, who establishes it, who they attract - not necessarily how new or old they are. I dunno, it's like mazal.

For example, there's a new school in town Aderes, it's only around for maybe 3 years? I heard they got over 1000 applicants. People were literally banging the doors down. It's very popular.

Rebbetzin Paretsky of Bais Yaakov of Monsey is starting a school next year with two classes, and I heard she filled up very quickly.

So yes - we need new schools, and they should be set up with good people running them, so that people feel comfortable sending.

Thats good to hear. I hope this whole saga ends sooner than later.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Aug 03 2021, 4:55 pm
I also don't like these huge classes. I wish we could change that.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:23 am
Chayalle wrote:
As much as I feel for the girls not in school, my whole body wants to scream NO WAY to this idea.

Our schools are not like public schools. We are not in the business just to teach classrooms. We want to transmit the Mesorah to our girls, we want to do it in a way that there is a personal feel and connection, and we want to meet their emotional and spiritual needs. This cannot be done in classrooms of 50 students.

I know of high schools that ran this way, I know students who went there and came out feeling like a factory item. It did not do much good for their neshamos.

We stand to lose way too much if we accept this kind of model.

We need more high schools, we have so much talent, we have mechanchim, we need it set up. We should not be shortchanged. We should not accept so little for our daughters.


I understand your position, yes our schools are not public schools. But, we have already crossed that bridge. Instead of putting “band-aids” and more “band-aids” on the situation we have to take a hard look at reality. Right now we are “Waiting for super man” but guess what super man is not coming. We already have more then 40 girls in a class, with classes inching up to 50. Would it not be better to have teachers that are trained to teach such large classes than what is going on now? Wear teachers are expected to teach such large classes with no training. There are ways in witch you can have a few 1000’s kids in a school and kids do not get lost in the shuffle were the school does not acted like a factory. Right now we have large schools that are acting like small schools and yes a lot of girls are getting lost in the shuffle. We have to take our heads out of the s and and change the way schools run. It will not be easy but, it can be done and it has to be done because there is no other option.

A new school just started this year with two full classes. That is great except that 9 years ago 3 new schools started and another 2 schools opened up more classes. That means that 5 classes have to go into 2. If there was not already a massive shortages of spots that might be doable, now it is just a band-aid. If we just add 2 more classes every year it is not going to fix anything.

We need to take a real look at what is going on and stop putting band-aids on the situation. New schools would be nice to have but it is not happening.
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amother




Tomato
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 11:35 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
A few years ago there was talk about small class sizes and how we must have them. I did a small amount of research and what I found is that on the high school level you can have 50 kids in a class and it's fine, except you have to teach differently then if you have 30 kids in a class. I asked a teacher who has over 40 girls in each of her classes if she had any lessons on how to teach bigger classes and she just laughed.

As Lakewood gets bigger we have to a just to it. If we are going to put 50 girls in a class we need to have teachers that can and know how to teach them. In NYC the public High Schools that are the ones people want to send to are not necessarily the smallest. Some of the more desired schools can have a few 1,000 students. While I am not really interested in sending to a school with 2,000 or more girls, I think that schools have to realize that they are a big school and a just to it, it would be better for everyone in the long run.

One of the biggest problem of starting a new girls High School is the cost. There are a lot of different ways to start a school that would not cost so much. But, are people going to be comfortable to send there? I know I would be wherry of sending to a school that does not confirm with what we call the norm. Yes, I know that is a problem with me but I am not the only one that you have to convince.


I would much sooner send my dd to a new school than to a school with 50 girls in a class. We send our dds to school for more than just the education. It's such an important time in their lives. They need to be able to have a relationship with their teachers and staff, not just be another number. And I'm not just talking, I sent my dds to Bais Kaila at a time when it didn't have a great name, rather than send to Bais Yaakov.
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amother




Opal
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:26 pm
amother [ Tomato ] wrote:
I would much sooner send my dd to a new school than to a school with 50 girls in a class. We send our dds to school for more than just the education. It's such an important time in their lives. They need to be able to have a relationship with their teachers and staff, not just be another number. And I'm not just talking, I sent my dds to Bais Kaila at a time when it didn't have a great name, rather than send to Bais Yaakov.

I went to Bais Kaila for the same reason.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:34 pm
amother [ Opal ] wrote:
I went to Bais Kaila for the same reason.


And I sent my DD's to Bais Kaila for the same reason.


ETA: I have posted this many times. When DD was in 8th grade, we went for an interview with a certain school that was newer at the time. The head of the school asked me why I want to send there. (I didn't - we had to apply to the requisite number of schools, that's why we were there.) I told him that the school is a small school, and that's a draw for me.

He laughed and told me that it will not remain small. He said this year there are 600 graduates in the 8th grades in Lakewood, and there are 2400 primary girls. We have 8 years to quadruple our schools.

And he was right - we are already there, the primary girls of DD's 8th grade year are in 8th grade now. And though there are more schools, and more classes, it's not enough.


Last edited by Chayalle on Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:39 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand your position, yes our schools are not public schools. But, we have already crossed that bridge. Instead of putting “band-aids” and more “band-aids” on the situation we have to take a hard look at reality. Right now we are “Waiting for super man” but guess what super man is not coming. We already have more then 40 girls in a class, with classes inching up to 50. Would it not be better to have teachers that are trained to teach such large classes than what is going on now? Wear teachers are expected to teach such large classes with no training. There are ways in witch you can have a few 1000’s kids in a school and kids do not get lost in the shuffle were the school does not acted like a factory. Right now we have large schools that are acting like small schools and yes a lot of girls are getting lost in the shuffle. We have to take our heads out of the s and and change the way schools run. It will not be easy but, it can be done and it has to be done because there is no other option.

A new school just started this year with two full classes. That is great except that 9 years ago 3 new schools started and another 2 schools opened up more classes. That means that 5 classes have to go into 2. If there was not already a massive shortages of spots that might be doable, now it is just a band-aid. If we just add 2 more classes every year it is not going to fix anything.

We need to take a real look at what is going on and stop putting band-aids on the situation. New schools would be nice to have but it is not happening.


And I think that adding more girls to swell the existing classes is just as much a bandaid, if not more so. And I don't think there exists training out there that's going to make any teachers more capable of teaching larger classes and actually reaching the students.

I think you are dreaming OP. Are you going to expand current classes to 50 girls now, and then next year to 60, and in a few years, do you want lecture-style classrooms with 100 students each, for 9th graders? This makes no sense at all.

The solution to the issue is more schools, or more classes in each school and more teachers, but not bigger classes. In a community with the growth rate that Lakewood has, this is what's needed. We need enough schools, with enough classes, to accommodate our students, including all students from Lakewood and the surrounding areas.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:46 pm
Chayalle wrote:
My big girls went to high school in Lakewood with 25, 26 students per class.

And my little one is going to 8th grade B"EH. And I want to call her high school and beg them to take some of the girls who are not yet accepted to high school. And at the same time I want to beg them to keep the classes a normal size. My DD will be going there, and I know she NEEDS that.

Yikes. We need more classes, more schools. Not bigger classes, not factories.


NO WE NEED MORE COMMUNITIES
I JUST CAME BACK FROM VACATION FOR PETE SAKE
IN PENNSYLVANIA , JUST A FEW HOURS AWAY, THERE IS HUNDREDS OF MILES OF UNTOUCHED LAND...
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:48 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
NO WE NEED MORE COMMUNITIES
I JUST CAME BACK FROM VACATION FOR PETE SAKE
IN PENNSYLVANIA , JUST A FEW HOURS AWAY, THERE IS HUNDREDS OF MILES OF UNTOUCHED LAND...


You can't ship the people out for resettlement. They are here, they are moving to Lakewood. So we need more schools.

If we had more communities, we'd have more schools. And if a community grows, it needs to grow it's schools along with that growth.
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amother




Blush
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 12:50 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
NO WE NEED MORE COMMUNITIES
I JUST CAME BACK FROM VACATION FOR PETE SAKE
IN PENNSYLVANIA , JUST A FEW HOURS AWAY, THERE IS HUNDREDS OF MILES OF UNTOUCHED LAND...


How many good schools and how few zoning laws are there in those hundreds of miles of untouched land?
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 1:01 pm
amother [ Blush ] wrote:
How many good schools and how few zoning laws are there in those hundreds of miles of untouched land?


Lakewood and Monsey were untouched land not so long ago...
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amother




Vanilla
 

Post Wed, Aug 04 2021, 1:14 pm
Op, I mentioned earlier, maybe look into Bet Yaakov of the Jersey Shore. It’s a very warm environment and a lot of girls do amazing there
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