I wish I didn’t send my daughter to sleep away camp

watergirl

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 5:01 am

OP, your daughter has been begging to go for 2 years, so I think it's safe to assume she is at least 10. She is not too young for overnight camp, and as others said, from the feeling I got from your OP, this will be very, very good for her.

As to a girl belonging at her mother's home until marriage, I have no idea what the norm is in your culture so I can't argue with you there, but please know, most of us WANT our girls (and boys) to learn to live away from home to gain skills and independence; these are good, important things to have in general and also to prepare her for marriage and leaving your home.

When my friends and kids have a list of worries for a situation like you have, I play a game with them that I learned from my therapist. It's called "What if? This". You ask yourself the "what if" and then you identify the worst possible outcome and see that is it not so bad and nothing you or she can not manage. Let's play.

What if she's cold in the cold country night air? I know you packed her a warm blanket and sweatshirt, she will grab the sweatshirt, put it on, and cuddle up in her blanket. Most people sleep even better in the cold, believe it or not!

What if she is afraid to go to the bathroom at night? She can not hold it in all night; once she is uncomfortable enough, she will go to the bathroom, and then every other night she will know it is not scary and she won't hold it and be uncomfortable anymore.

What if she can't figure out how to put on her sheet? She will watch the other girls and hopefully copy them, or she will ask her counselor for help. If she is too shy to do that and her sheet pops off in the middle of the night, yes, she will be on the mattress. That is also ok, it can not harm her, and in the morning she will know she needs help if she was uncomfortable. Discomfort is great motivation to face your shyness and ask for help!

Did she know where to put her things? What if she can't find her brush? Your daughter will unpack like everyone else. As she goes through her bags, she will find each thing and use this freedom to decide for herself where to put her things. Each girl has her own space to put away her belongings, and your daughter will decide on her own how to set her stuff up.

Is she homesick? Will she regret her choice? Worst worst case, yes she is. (She is not likely to be, but we are playing the game). She will call you and let you know. If she is miserable and does not call you, she will still be ok. She will become resilient and she will learn so much from this. There are times in our lives where we will be miserable and will have to stick it out - if that is the case for her, she will GROW and GAIN! She is not in trouble and she is not in danger.

You can take it from here.

Overnight camps are an American tradition for a reason - kids love it. As for the history of camps and why they started, your theory that it stemmed from orphans is interesting, but it is incorrect. Please read this and learn a bit Smile

https://dailyhistory.org/What_.....es%3F

gefilte

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:08 am

some of my best summers EVER...were spent in camp..

The opportunity to be on my own..and experience things I never would have...was priceless...

Let's start a thread ( or here) sharing stories..

Face to face with a mouse!!!!! not Mikey...

amother

Burntblack

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:13 am

Children BELONG to their parents? It’s a super fun experience and helps kids develop many skills. If she wanted to go she’s probably fine. I feel bad that so many kids have to deal with these attitudes from parents nowadays.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:19 am

OP, I say this as a very caring mother who also worried about my DD and found it hard to send her off to camp for the first time: You sound like you have attachment issues. Unless your DD is really very young (mine is 13 and went for the first time this year) it really was time to let her go.

I don't agree that girls should stay home till their wedding. They should grow wings slowly, beforehand. They go to camp and learn independence, and that they can manage without Mommy. They have counselors who help them if they need it, but they learn to put on a sweatshirt if they're cold, and they can go to the bathroom by themselves if needed. And when to take a shower, and when to give in laundry. And how to get along with a roomful of girls.

It's a healthy experience, and a good choice for your DD.

amother

Mimosa

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:23 am

OP, I'm probably the first one here that really understands you. I sent my son for the first time last week and the thoughts that went through my head were exactly like yours. I'm not sure what background you are from, I come from an Israeli background, where sleepaway camp is not a thing, and all my Israeli relatives found it very surprising that we are sending our son to camp for a month. I also think it's strange for young kids ( under 15) , to be away from home for more than a few days. The typical American (maybe not all but most that I know!!), have camp in their genes as being normal and if someone doesn't go, it's strange to them.
I'm also a generally anxious person, so that also adds to my anxiousness about my son in camp. Bh he is loving camp and I am hoping it will make him more independent.
In the meantime, I'm trying to distract myself and not think about it all day.

amother

Wallflower

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:25 am

I feel similar but not exactly the same as you OP.

I think the push for summer camps largely came from US Jewish communities largely centralized in dense urban centers like NYC and parts of NJ, so there were benefits to giving children an opportunity to enjoy the outdoors while also being in a Torah environment--two things lacking decades ago in the summers in these locations. (School's out, and the urban locations aren't great for enjoying the outdoors or getting any fresh air.)

I do struggle with the 'hashkafic' or 'cultural' ideas now that sleep away camp is a must for every child, no matter where they live, and the camps that are typically relevant for my community don't have sessions less than 4 weeks, and in some cases, 7 weeks. In conjunction with similar realities in the system that children, especially boys, are dorming out of town starting at ~14 yrs old--only coming home between terms or occasionally for yom tov.

I do also feel ill at ease that these are givens and musts--but that's true for me about a lot of other things that are viewed as givens and musts and really imho shouldn't be.

I don't know about a hard and fast rule about being at home until married, but I do struggle with the normalization of children just not living at home for years from a young age, and also the social/financial pressures of sending to sleep away camp as well as boarding schools in some cases. I do think children should be able to live at home except in some extenuating circumstances, but summer camp can be compatible with that too. I do wish there were more local opportunities so that sleep away camp didn't feel like the only option in some cases.

If your child is happy and thriving at camp, that's great, OP. I think that's the best way to process this child and going to camp--are they safe and happy? And afterwards, did camp add to their growth (iyh) or the opposite (cvs)? Take each year and each child one at a time.

amother

Daylily

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:25 am

OP I agree with some of your sentiments. While I don’t necessarily worry about bad things happening, I do think sending young kids away from home for a month is a very unnatural construct. I don’t know why it became such a norm, it’s certainly not the norm in the world at large. In general I feel like parents are stripped of more and more influence over their kids lives. This isn’t about helicoptering and holding kids back, it’s about age appropriate attachments.

amother

Mimosa

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:26 am

Lol, I just Googled my amother name- mimosa= a cocktail composed of champagne and chilled citrus juice! Maybe that'll help calm my nerves! Wink

amother

Steel

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:26 am

I’m sorry to say but it seems like you are the problem and she is begging for some breathing space away from you!!
Please go for some help.
It is normal and healthy for teen girls and boys to learn how to survive without mommy. Unfortunately lots of unsuccessful marriages are a result of unhealthy attachments and the inability for teens and young adults to have the skills to work and figure things out.
The best gift you can give your daughter is the skill to learn how to navigate this world on her own!

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:27 am

Neither myself nor my husband went to overnight camp, but we send our kids out before 8th grade as a real need for them. Besides gaining independence and learning so much about themselves, it gives them a broader view of others and the need to navigate socially. My kids after only better for it.

And it's ok if they extend themselves from their comfort zone for a few weeks. It stretches them. I don't regret this at all.

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:29 am

My DD is at sleepaway camp - as a staff member! And I still worry...

It comes with the territory. We love our kids, so we worry.

amother

Gardenia

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:32 am

amother [ Mimosa ] wrote:

Lol, I just Googled my amother name- mimosa= a cocktail composed of champagne and chilled citrus juice! Maybe that'll help calm my nerves! Wink

Oh yes! Mimosas are a brunch classic and they’re delicious!

amother

Stonewash

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:32 am

Op, I hated camp and I left halfway through the month. I'm still happy that I tried it. Otherwise I would always feel like I missed out on this amazing experience all my friends had.

When my first child wanted to go I had a really hard time with it, only because I didn't like it and couldn't imagine that she would. She had a great time and went for many years. Most of my kids loved camp. One of them didn't and never went back after his first summer and that was also fine.

But your child will be fine. Some of us tend to underestimate our kids abilities. But they're really capable of dealing with so much.

Oldest

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:33 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

She’s young. She was begging for 2 years. dh thought it would be good for her. She had a friend who was going so I gave in and let but for months I had a sinking feeling in my heart.
She left yesterday.
I’m trying to understand why this is a normal thing for young girls to do? Why is it normal for parents to pack up their child’s clothing and send them away for a month??? Children belong with their parents until they get married!
I know girls go to camp all the time and have wonderful memories. I know they make new friends and enjoy themselves for the most part. But what about the hard times? Why is it okay to put your child through that?? All night long I’m picturing my daughter laying in a bed in a room full of bunk beds with girls she doesn’t know yet. She’s always cold. I’m picturing her shivering in the cold country air. I’m wondering if she’s afraid to get up to use the bathroom. She usually goes 1-2 times a night. I’m hoping she figured out how to put her sheet on her bed and that she’s not laying on a bare mattress that the sheet came off of. I’m hoping she had an easy time unpacking all the things I jammed into her duffel bags. Did she know where to put her things?? Did she find her brush stuffed into the front zipper pocket?
Is she unable to sleep with so many people in the room? She usually sleeps with one sister. Is she laying in the dark wondering why I actually sent her away and didn’t put my foot down and be more firm and make her wait till she’s older? Is she homesick? Will she regret her choice? Will everyone be nice to her? Will she get past being self conscious and allow herself to talk to girls she doesn’t know. Will she have a good time even though sleeping away from home for a month is so hard?
All I can think is that I’m pretty sure sleep away camps must have started many years ago for orphans who had no home. How could so many parents think this is normal at this point? I know so many people will respond and tell me that when they sent their daughter for the first time she came back happy.
I’m sure not everyone came back thrilled. I’m positive that many girls actually have a very hard time. Does anyone understand how parents can send their kids away for so long??

Don't worry. You are setting your child up for an amazing experience. One that she will not get anywhere else. she is going to grow and develop in ways that she will not be able to elsewhere and make friends she wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to make. To address some of your points:
1)I’m hoping she figured out how to put her sheet on her bed and that she’s not laying on a bare mattress that the sheet came off of. I’m hoping she had an easy time unpacking all the things I jammed into her duffel bags. Did she know where to put her things?? Did she find her brush stuffed into the front zipper pocket?- That's what counselors are for on the first day. They go around and make sure the girls get whatever help they need to unpack and make their beds. They also know that for some girls this is the first time in camp and they walk them through the day and explain all the camp procedures etc
2)All I can think is that I’m pretty sure sleep away camps must have started many years ago for orphans who had no home- actually camps were started post-war as a way to give kids an opportunity to be exposed to Yiddeshkeit in a way that wasn't possible as most kids were in public school at the time and did not have much exposure to a frum education
3)[b]I know so many people will respond and tell me that when they sent their daughter for the first time she came back happy.
I’m sure not everyone came back thrilled. I’m positive that many girls actually have a very hard time.-[/b]-Yes, some girls do have a hard time but only a small minority. Most girls have the greatest summer ever and it is only a growing experience. For me, camp was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me. It forced me out of my shell, and gave me confidence to be myself. I met some of my closest friends in camp and can honestly say that I would not be the person I am today without camp.

You sound like a very concerned parent, but really, you are doing the greatest thing for your daughter by sending her to camp. Girls do not have to say home until they are married, they need to go out and have experiences and gain independence. Trust me, my dh dated many girls before me and after a while would automatically say no to any girl who did not go to camp or sem for this reason. camp allows the girl to create her own identity and think for herself and discover herself in ways she would not be able to while still living at home. Yes, it is hard to send your daughter out, but it is made easier by the knowledge that you are sending her off to a great summer. My kids are still young but I am looking forward to the day when I can send them to camp and provide them with the opportunity to have such experiences.

amother

Forestgreen

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:47 am

amother [ Stonewash ] wrote:

I just want to express my admiration to you for this. I myself never went to camp, because my mother claimed she hated it and wouldn't let me go. I'm a real camper type, and I'm pretty sure I would have loved it. I'm glad there are mothers who can get over their own experiences and let their children be their own selves.

essie14

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:48 am

amother [ Mimosa ] wrote:

Israeli kids typically go camping with their friends in the woods - much more scary than sleepaway camp!
Israeli kids definitely do not stay home close to their parents. They have much more independence than typical American kids.

amother

Eggplant

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:53 am

Hi op, I just wanted to say that I completely understand you!
Your post even made me all teary eyed.
You are far from the only one having these kind of thoughts.
I absolutely loved camp and I can still relate to every single word that you wrote.
You sound like such a caring and loving mom!
I really hope that you find a way to feel better about it though...

zaq

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 7:01 am

essie14 wrote:

Thank you for that. I was confused by the earlier assertion that Israeli kids stay home, as they have the reputation of being exceptionally independent and adventurous compared to American kids. One sees very young kids wandering around the neighborhood without a supervising adult at an age when no American kid would be allowed to do so. At 18 they go into the army, for goodness' sake. And not a peacetime army in which they monitor the weather and build bridges, either.

amother

Mimosa

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 7:05 am

essie14 wrote:

Israeli kids go away from home, but not for weeks/months. In the circles I'm from, they go on 3-4 day trips. Israeli kids are definitely more independent though Very Happy

amother

Razzmatazz

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 7:17 am

OP, my mother was very anxious about me leaving when I was young. No matter how much I would ask she wouldnt let me go to camp. I ended up going to seminary and having extreme panic attacks and having to go home after 2 months. I was devastated. It took me many year independent of my parents and lots of therapy to learn to be on my own. Please let your children slowly grow up and go away from home to learn how to fend for themselves. She has people to help her and she's not stupid. She will figure it out.