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Saying shame on you to your children
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amother




Banana
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 8:34 pm
If you do you are determining that your children will need therapy one day. It is very unhealthy to shame.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 8:51 pm
amother [ Banana ] wrote:
If you do you are determining that your children will need therapy one day. It is very unhealthy to shame.


But if you have until now fear not. You can undo this!
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agreer




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 10:02 pm
Omg. It's just an expression. Calm down people.

It's most certainly not abusive. To say that it is cheapens the definition of abuse.

My parents said it to us when we did something wrong. It helped us realize the gravity of the problem. We never thought that bc they said "shame ON YOU" that they loved us less.

They wanted us to realize that we did something wrong. And we did. I didn't repeat the mistakes that made my mom say that to me.
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fortunate123




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 11:00 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What should a child feel when misbehaving if not ashamed?


Regret. Not shame.
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amother




Acacia
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 11:06 pm
To me “shame on you” is simply an old fashioned expression. If I was ever told that as a child, which I can’t honestly remember if I was, I wouldn’t have taken it to mean that I am now supposed to feel ashamed. It’s an expression.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 11:12 pm
What about telling a child he is good? Is he good or is the behavior good?
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amother




Blush
 

Post Wed, Jul 28 2021, 11:21 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What about telling a child he is good? Is he good or is the behavior good?

Teach your child that they are essentially good inside, and don’t equate behavior, good or bad, with who they are. That is teaching conditional love and conditional self-respect. Don’t praise excessively, don’t shame. It’s focusing on the externals when you should be focusing on who they are essentially and what they are capable of.

If you want to encourage a behavior, focus on the effects of that behavior on your child and others - “your bedroom looks so peaceful and clean, you look so proud to have cleaned that all up!” rather than “great job, you’re such a good cleaner!” This encourages the child to see the effects of their good behavior rather than identify as good or bad at something.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 8:54 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What about telling a child he is good? Is he good or is the behavior good?


The behavior. But sometimes it's nice for the child to hear, I know you're a good kid so I can trust you.
And as was said, saying shame on you has not ruined your child for life. If your kids notice your script has changed you can say, the meaning is the same. It always has been. I just think this is a better way to get my point across.
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sfisch




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 9:11 am
crust wrote:
Yes this
Seperate the child from the misbehavior.

The child's respect and self worth remains intact.

The child doesn't become burdened that he is 'the' behavior or 'the' shame.


Yup. “You’re a fine person. That is not a fine behavior.”
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amother




Stone
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 9:12 am
PinkFridge wrote:
But if you have until now fear not. You can undo this!


How??

Um, asking for a friend...
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 9:18 am
I will say that I grew up in a loving home. My parents loved and still love me and want what is best for me, always. And I never doubt that. I am also 45 and a different generation than many of you. It is never OK to abuse a child and I have no idea what goes on in people’s homes, wheter something is the tip of the iceberg and there is so much else going on, or it it is an isolated incident, but my feeling is wow! Is everything blown out of proportion? Is everything a huge deal. Is everyone a snowflake and must walk on eggshells? If it is said often and in a family where the parents don’t hug and everything is punitive and everything is fear and disappointment then yes, it is a problem but my instinct is like
amother [ Acacia ] wrote:
To me “shame on you” is simply an old fashioned expression. If I was ever told that as a child, which I can’t honestly remember if I was, I wouldn’t have taken it to mean that I am now supposed to feel ashamed. It’s an expression.


Either I feel terrible for you and you have a horrible life that I don’t understand the magnitude of or you need to get over yourself. I am not there and I don’t know you but the spectrum is great and you could be anywhere in between.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 9:55 am
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
I will say that I grew up in a loving home. My parents loved and still love me and want what is best for me, always. And I never doubt that. I am also 45 and a different generation than many of you. It is never OK to abuse a child and I have no idea what goes on in people’s homes, wheter something is the tip of the iceberg and there is so much else going on, or it it is an isolated incident, but my feeling is wow! Is everything blown out of proportion? Is everything a huge deal. Is everyone a snowflake and must walk on eggshells? If it is said often and in a family where the parents don’t hug and everything is punitive and everything is fear and disappointment then yes, it is a problem but my instinct is like
Either I feel terrible for you and you have a horrible life that I don’t understand the magnitude of or you need to get over yourself. I am not there and I don’t know you but the spectrum is great and you could be anywhere in between.

Why such a need to defend an expression that is clearly meant to demean?
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SafeAtLast




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 9:59 am
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
I will say that I grew up in a loving home. My parents loved and still love me and want what is best for me, always. And I never doubt that. I am also 45 and a different generation than many of you. It is never OK to abuse a child and I have no idea what goes on in people’s homes, wheter something is the tip of the iceberg and there is so much else going on, or it it is an isolated incident, but my feeling is wow! Is everything blown out of proportion? Is everything a huge deal. Is everyone a snowflake and must walk on eggshells? If it is said often and in a family where the parents don’t hug and everything is punitive and everything is fear and disappointment then yes, it is a problem but my instinct is like
Either I feel terrible for you and you have a horrible life that I don’t understand the magnitude of or you need to get over yourself. I am not there and I don’t know you but the spectrum is great and you could be anywhere in between.


Saying shame on you is blowing things out of proportion.
Does the kid really need to feel ashamed so the parent can blow off some steam?

We don't use a lot of curse words even it's "just an expression".
It usually says more about the person saying it than the person who they are trying to insult.
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amother




Kiwi
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 9:59 am
If it slips out once or twice, your child will not be permanently scarred.
But as a regular method of communication it is harmful and emotionally unhealthy.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 6:53 pm
"Shame on you" is sort of vague, and definitely unhelpful. Even remorse is a pretty complicated concept for a small child.

DD was very logic driven. I would ask her "Do you think that was a good idea" "Was that a good thing to do?" or I would say "I don't think that was a very good idea. What do you think?" (I can honestly count on one hand the number of times that I've yelled at her, and every single time was me freaking out and overreacting. I apologized every time.)

I would listen to her, and 99 times out of 100, she would come to the conclusion that what she did was not a good thing, and she would not feel great about it. Then we would talk about doing nice things, not doing the thing that was a bad idea, and making things better.

You can even do this with a 5 or 6 year old, if your child has good communication skills. "Parenting Kids with Love and Logic", and the whole Love and Logic series, are the best parenting books I have ever read in my whole life, and I think I've read almost all of them.

If you have a "little lawyer" who likes to argue with you, these books will save your sanity, while helping you build a strong connection with your child. Your child will feel heard, validated, and will be part of the problem solving - instead of feeling like they are the problem.
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amother




Acacia
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 10:20 pm
SafeAtLast wrote:
Saying shame on you is blowing things out of proportion.
Does the kid really need to feel ashamed so the parent can blow off some steam?

We don't use a lot of curse words even it's "just an expression".
It usually says more about the person saying it than the person who they are trying to insult.


Seriously, I never before in my life thought “shame on you” was meant to literally bestow shame. You learn something new every day.

For the record I’m also in my forties.

Also for the record this is not an expression I use myself, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a position to say it to anyone. It does seem to me to be something that would be said in anger.
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SafeAtLast




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 10:41 pm
amother [ Acacia ] wrote:
Seriously, I never before in my life thought “shame on you” was meant to literally bestow shame. You learn something new every day.

For the record I’m also in my forties.

Also for the record this is not an expression I use myself, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a position to say it to anyone. It does seem to me to be something that would be said in anger.


Well the person who started it, meant literally that. Also maybe because I am thinking of the Yiddish version, which is more literal.
שעם דיך Or מעגסט זיך שעמען, yelled in an angry tone of voice, can definitely make a child feel like less than 2 cents.
I don't see what else the message can convey other than shame.
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amother




Acacia
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 10:46 pm
SafeAtLast wrote:
Well the person who started it, meant literally that. Also maybe because I am thinking of the Yiddish version, which is more literal.
שעם דיך Or מעגסט זיך שעמען, yelled in an angry tone of voice, can definitely make a child feel like less than 2 cents.
I don't see what else the message can convey other than shame.


Granted, it probably does sound worse in Yiddish
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tp3




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 10:51 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
I will say that I grew up in a loving home. My parents loved and still love me and want what is best for me, always. And I never doubt that. I am also 45 and a different generation than many of you. It is never OK to abuse a child and I have no idea what goes on in people’s homes, wheter something is the tip of the iceberg and there is so much else going on, or it it is an isolated incident, but my feeling is wow! Is everything blown out of proportion? Is everything a huge deal. Is everyone a snowflake and must walk on eggshells? If it is said often and in a family where the parents don’t hug and everything is punitive and everything is fear and disappointment then yes, it is a problem but my instinct is like
Either I feel terrible for you and you have a horrible life that I don’t understand the magnitude of or you need to get over yourself. I am not there and I don’t know you but the spectrum is great and you could be anywhere in between.

I'm the same generation as you. My parents never said it to us but teachers did. It felt very shaming. To shame someone to the core is abusive. Nobody is so bad that they deserve that shame.

And btw, some people are more literal than others. Very insensitive to say get over yourselves.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jul 29 2021, 10:53 pm
Healthy shame is knowing we are human, fallible, non perfect.

Unhealthy shame is thinking we are God like or need to be God like. Either we act superior or criticize ourselves or others.

When one has unhealthy shame he passes it on like a hot potato to all those in his environment.

So I would say it really depends on how it was said.
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