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Having/creating easy going children
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Tue, Aug 10 2021, 8:38 pm
One of my children was extremely difficult - cried all day as a baby, very very stubborn toddler etc so when I was expecting the next one all I desperately davened for and boy did I daven was that he should be a good child and easy. That and he should be healthy. Nothing more, over and over. Well from the moment he was born he has been sunshine and joy. Even as an adult he radiates happiness. Is he particularly smart or handsome? Not so much lol but he is beloved by all. Neither I or my husband or any of his siblings have a resemblance of his upbeat personality. He was a pleasure to raise. Do I know if it was my tefillos? Nope. But they certainly didn't hurt. So daven, daven, daven. And btw my difficult child with the strong and stubborn personality evolved into the most fabulous, responsible, capable mother and wife who has a great career. It may have been hard as her mom years ago but her nature has served her well and I couldn't be more proud!
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 1:54 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
But Ritalin is a-ok right?

Ritalin has all of those things she mentioned. Long-term studies have been done, there's been extensive research, including research on what doses are safe for children. Ritalin can only be prescribed by a doctor, and only based on a diagnosis by a specialist. It most certainly cannot be given out by any parent who's decided it would make their kid's life easier, based on a crude estimate of how the average adult body size/dose translates to a child's body.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 2:17 am
I think step #1 in helping kids be more easy going is to pinpoint what exactly they're struggling with.

OK maybe Step #1 is before that - differentiating between "not easy for me to deal with" and "too uptight." A kid who is stubborn or opinionated doesn't necessarily need to change. And remember that a certain amount of disobedience is healthy and normal. Don't be one of those parents who tries to discipline any hint of disagreement out of their child. They're kids, not military recruits.

(and even soldiers need to know when to say 'no')

But let's say a kid has elements of their personality that are likely to get in their way. They are too rigid, too black and white in their thinking, too anxious.

So then the question is, what exactly is missing?

A kid who can't handle changes in plans might need help learning to understand that 1. it's not personal, 2. change is natural and not always bad. They might also benefit from practical tools to help them cope (eg carrying snacks, so that they are fine even if lunch is delayed on their trip).

A kid who insists on always getting their way might need help learning empathy - understanding the other person's perspective, and that it's important to take their needs and wants into account, too.

A kid who sees every situation as black and white, Good vs Evil, might benefit from being exposed to complicated situations where each side is a bit right and a bit wrong, and there are no easy solutions.

Etc.

Basically, instead of looking at it as changing your kid's personality type, look at it as teaching your kid useful skills. If your kid's reactions are bad for themselves or others, that means they're missing some emotional or practical coping skill. Figure out what it is, and help them get better at it.

Oh, and focus on 1, maybe 2 things at a time, and expect it to take a lot of time. Like, years of this until one day the vacation plans change last minute and your kid is able to take a deep breath and say, "OK, that sounds fun, too."
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banana123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 2:35 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
That their environment in utero coupled with their genetic susceptibilities led to suboptimal nervous system function. Environment in utero means nutritional status, microbiome or lack Thereof, immune status, pathogenic load, toxic load and so on. There is loads of research on this.

Can you please link the research?

Thanks
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amother
Yolk


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 3:28 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
One of my children was extremely difficult - cried all day as a baby, very very stubborn toddler etc so when I was expecting the next one all I desperately davened for and boy did I daven was that he should be a good child and easy. That and he should be healthy. Nothing more, over and over. Well from the moment he was born he has been sunshine and joy. Even as an adult he radiates happiness. Is he particularly smart or handsome? Not so much lol but he is beloved by all. Neither I or my husband or any of his siblings have a resemblance of his upbeat personality. He was a pleasure to raise. Do I know if it was my tefillos? Nope. But they certainly didn't hurt. So daven, daven, daven. And btw my difficult child with the strong and stubborn personality evolved into the most fabulous, responsible, capable mother and wife who has a great career. It may have been hard as her mom years ago but her nature has served her well and I couldn't be more proud!


Yes. My stubborn and independent daughter was difficult as a baby but she is becoming an amazing young woman.
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amother
Poinsettia


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 3:33 am
ora_43 wrote:
I think step #1 in helping kids be more easy going is to pinpoint what exactly they're struggling with.

OK maybe Step #1 is before that - differentiating between "not easy for me to deal with" and "too uptight." A kid who is stubborn or opinionated doesn't necessarily need to change. And remember that a certain amount of disobedience is healthy and normal. Don't be one of those parents who tries to discipline any hint of disagreement out of their child. They're kids, not military recruits.

(and even soldiers need to know when to say 'no')

But let's say a kid has elements of their personality that are likely to get in their way. They are too rigid, too black and white in their thinking, too anxious.

So then the question is, what exactly is missing?

A kid who can't handle changes in plans might need help learning to understand that 1. it's not personal, 2. change is natural and not always bad. They might also benefit from practical tools to help them cope (eg carrying snacks, so that they are fine even if lunch is delayed on their trip).

A kid who insists on always getting their way might need help learning empathy - understanding the other person's perspective, and that it's important to take their needs and wants into account, too.

A kid who sees every situation as black and white, Good vs Evil, might benefit from being exposed to complicated situations where each side is a bit right and a bit wrong, and there are no easy solutions.

Etc.

Basically, instead of looking at it as changing your kid's personality type, look at it as teaching your kid useful skills. If your kid's reactions are bad for themselves or others, that means they're missing some emotional or practical coping skill. Figure out what it is, and help them get better at it.

Oh, and focus on 1, maybe 2 things at a time, and expect it to take a lot of time. Like, years of this until one day the vacation plans change last minute and your kid is able to take a deep breath and say, "OK, that sounds fun, too."

Yes. Teach skills don't try to change a personality.
One of my children gets overwhelmed easily, for a while I had a mantra with him: We can handle big problems.
It really helped to calm him and adjust his attitude.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 10:44 am
ora_43 wrote:
Ritalin has all of those things she mentioned. Long-term studies have been done, there's been extensive research, including research on what doses are safe for children. Ritalin can only be prescribed by a doctor, and only based on a diagnosis by a specialist. It most certainly cannot be given out by any parent who's decided it would make their kid's life easier, based on a crude estimate of how the average adult body size/dose translates to a child's body.
Sure, the data is there, but it’s far from pristine. Ritalin has been linked to heart failure, among other nasty side effects, but no dr is going to tell you that unless you probe. But cbds the devil. Sigh. I also don’t know for how long it’s been studied on very young children, and following them far into adulthood. What’s more, lots of kids don’t qualify for for a diagnosis but can still use help regulating, gentle supplements can be the perfect solution for such kids. Cbd is a plant extract. I know it sounds tinfoil to some people, but it’s hard for me to believe that plant extracts can have worse effects than drugs. About dosing, Clark’s rule is used in pharmacology all the time, it’s not considered a crude estimate.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 10:48 am
banana123 wrote:
Can you please link the research?

Thanks

Any specific factor or just in general environment in utero affecting neurobiology of children?
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banana123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 10:54 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Any specific factor or just in general environment in utero affecting neurobiology of children?

Suboptimal nervous system function as a result of uterine environment and as something not correctible by properly supportive care during infancy; toxic load as a result of something other than known teratogens; how pathogenic load in utero is defined and how its effects are defined; nutritional status as something measurable in ways other than on-target growth and birth weight; how any and all of these factors influence a child's personality.

I know that the environment in utero has an influence on the child but I have not seen "loads of research" on the issue in general, and specifically not on the issues I mentioned.

If there is research I would like to read through it. I find the topic fascinating.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:03 am
banana123 wrote:
Suboptimal nervous system function as a result of uterine environment and as something not correctible by properly supportive care during infancy; toxic load as a result of something other than known teratogens; how pathogenic load in utero is defined and how its effects are defined; nutritional status as something measurable in ways other than on-target growth and birth weight; how any and all of these factors influence a child's personality.

I know that the environment in utero has an influence on the child but I have not seen "loads of research" on the issue in general, and specifically not on the issues I mentioned.

If there is research I would like to read through it. I find the topic fascinating.
You sound combative. I’m not really looking for a debate. I will post some links but not interested in taking apart the articles. They are for informative purposes only and should be read broadly, not myopically, as in, this is an emerging area of research but already we have many indications of many different prenatal factors affecting behavior (broadly) in offspring. That’s all. I posted a fascinating article up thread about how mold toxicity is passed on from mother to child in utero and how it’s been linked to autistic behavior. I also posted a disclaimer saying that this can be relevant even if your child doesn’t have autism, it’s one example of pathogens/toxicity that you never hear drs discuss crossing the placenta and affecting the neurodevelopment of a child.
Here is an abstract of a paper linking b12 deficiency in utero to behavioral problems later in life https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18709887/
Here is one on the role of maternal immune activation on neurodevelopment https://www.frontiersin.org/ar...../full
Maternal Microbiota affecting behavior in infants and children https://www.thelancet.com/jour.....-3964(21)00193-6/fulltext
Metals in mother’s linked to behavioral problems among many other issues in children https://environhealthprevmed.b.....963-z

There are many many more such articles

The leap from “spirited, strong willed, stubborn, high strung” to differences in neurobiology is one I’m afraid you will have to make on your own.
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banana123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:11 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
You sound combative. I’m not really looking for a debate. I posted a fascinating article up thread about how mold toxicity is passed on from mother to child in utero and how it’s been linked to autistic behavior. I also posted a disclaimer saying that this can be relevant even if your child doesn’t have autism, it’s one example of pathogens/toxicity that you never hear drs discuss crossing the placenta and affecting the neurodevelopment of a child.
Here is an abstract of a paper linking b12 deficiency in utero to behavioral problems later in life https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18709887/
Here is one on the role of maternal immune activation on neurodevelopment https://www.frontiersin.org/ar...../full
Maternal Microbiota affecting behavior in infants and children https://www.thelancet.com/jour.....-3964(21)00193-6/fulltext
Metals in mother’s linked to behavioral problems among many other issues in children https://environhealthprevmed.b.....963-z

The leap from “spirited, strong willed, stubborn, high strung” to differences in neurobiology is one I’m afraid you will have to make on your own.

I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious. I find the whole issue fascinating. I wonder why you view my question as combative?

I know about behavior, autism, and metals - I was wondering about personality.

Thanks for the links, though. I'm already learning some new things.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:12 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Sure, the data is there, but it’s far from pristine. Ritalin has been linked to heart failure, among other nasty side effects, but no dr is going to tell you that unless you probe. But cbds the devil. Sigh. I also don’t know for how long it’s been studied on very young children, and following them far into adulthood. What’s more, lots of kids don’t qualify for for a diagnosis but can still use help regulating, gentle supplements can be the perfect solution for such kids. Cbd is a plant extract. I know it sounds tinfoil to some people, but it’s hard for me to believe that plant extracts can have worse effects than drugs. About dosing, Clark’s rule is used in pharmacology all the time, it’s not considered a crude estimate.

It’s hard for you to believe that plant extracts can have worse effects than drugs? Where do you think drugs come from?
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:12 am
banana123 wrote:
I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious. I find the whole issue fascinating. I wonder why you view my question as combative?

I know about behavior, autism, and metals - I was wondering about personality.

Thanks for the links, though. I'm already learning some new things.
Isn’t personality a pattern of behavior?

It’s not easy to explain or prove this leap, but “Changes in personality” is considered a neurological symptom (of infection, AE, neurotoxicity, heavy metal exposure, tumors, epilepsy etc) which kind of points to the fact that personality is a function of neurology to a large extent?
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:13 am
Zehava wrote:
It’s hard for you to believe that plant extracts can have worse effects than drugs? Where do you think drugs come from?
Lol. Not psychedelic drugs. psychotropic medication.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:14 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Lol. Not psychedelic drugs. psychotropic medication.

Where do you think those come from?
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:14 am
Zehava wrote:
Where do you think those come from?
Labs?
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:17 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Labs?

For someone seemingly so educated your ignorance is astounding.
Also, plant extracts can be poisonous too, so 🤷🏽‍♀️.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:19 am
Zehava wrote:
For someone seemingly so educated your ignorance is astounding.
Also, plant extracts can be poisonous too, so 🤷🏽‍♀️.
Really? Which psychotropic medication comes from a plant? I know aspirin was loosely based off of plant component, salycilic acid. I know antibiotics are grown from molds. Lithium is a naturally occurring mineral salt. The first psychotropic medication were actually anti histamines, and they came from dyes (methylene blue). The first anti depressant was also based off an antibiotic, but that’s a mold, not a plant (And maybe the earliest indication that mental health is tightly tied to infections and inflammation??) . Yes, plants can be poisonous. Cbd isn’t poisonous.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:24 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Really? Which psychotropic medication comes from a plant? I know aspirin was loosely based off of plant component, salycilic acid. I know antibiotics are grown from molds. Lithium is a naturally occurring mineral salt. The first psychotropic medication were actually anti histamines, and they came from dyes (methylene blue). Prozac was also based off an antibiotic, but that’s a mold, not a plant. Yes, plants can be poisonous. Cbd isn’t poisonous.

Any opiate based medication for one?
My point about the poison was that plant extract doesn’t equal harmless by a long stretch.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 11 2021, 11:27 am
Zehava wrote:
Any opiate based medication for one?
My point about the poison was that plant extract doesn’t equal harmless by a long stretch.
Yes, you’re right about opiates, I wasn’t thinking in that direction. But opiate meds aren’t plant extracts by a long stretch either. Either way, yes you’re right plants doesn’t automatically = safe, but I still don’t get the knee jerk Ritalin good, cbd bad reaction.
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