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Mishpacha double take- this week
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:30 am
Can we please discuss this?

As a mother & sibling of a child with sn I was pretty upset.
I definitely think someone should’ve been around to keep an eye on Toby, but why couldn’t the kallahs nieces and sisters be a little flexible and understanding?
Have they seriously never met a child with sn?? Those kids really had no awareness or were they just being difficult about it?
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shev




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:34 am
I was also very disturbed by this. And, I have no relative with special needs. Why cant a parent teach theyre children that not all children are the same. And thats the way Hashem made them?
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amother
Daylily


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:38 am
Its sad that this could have been a perfect teaching opportunity. I assumed ppl are a lot more understanding of kids with SN in 2021.....
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:40 am
I was also very disturbed by this.
Did the kallah’s sisters have to call their mother first thing the morning after the wedding?
Bad enough the nieces couldn’t be nice, their mothers also?
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amother
Brass


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:44 am
It was pathetic.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 2:06 am
Just a reminder that these stories are fictional and they are purposely disturbing to make a point.

Let’s hope this wouldn’t happen in real life.
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madame411




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 2:24 am
I found my self getting more and more upset by the minute!
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amother
Glitter


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 2:31 am
I agree that the Kallah’s family overreacted and didn’t handle the situation well, but it needs to be understood that making two consecutive simchos (I.e. Chassuna followed immediately by Shabbos Sheva Brachos) can be very overwhelming, and the pressure the kallah’s mother was under should be acknowledged, as well. I think that Toby should be accommodated/included, and her feelings should be considered, but the kallah’s family should have been prepared for this in advance, which would have enabled them to prepare their kids and allowed them to react more graciously.
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tweety1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 3:11 am
I was going to open a thread on this.
I bh dont have a special needs kid bh and I was extremely upset. I think the kallahs family handled it one million percent wrong. If only I can hug this mother and give her words of comfort, and just cry along with her. I keep on wondering if these double take articles are stories that happened irl.
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amother
Feverfew


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 6:47 am
I read the story and my thought was "this is so made up. This story definitely never happened. "

How can it be that a whole family-mother.sister. kids were never exposed to anyone with special needs. And they reacted like such babies.

I did not like this story. Was too fake
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 7:01 am
While this story may be fake, I can tellnyou that its entirely possible its real. As a mother of a sn child, I've experienced quite a bit of insensitive stories and think this story could definitely have happened.

I'll say, though, that my experience has been that children are pretty understanding once some facts are explained to them. Unfortunately, some adults are not.
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amother
Diamond


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 7:12 am
I was disturbed by the story too.
But theoretically, if it was a real story, I actually sided with the mother of the kalla. I feel she had no choice in the matter.

I feel very much for the mother of the sn child. (I have a sn child as well.) But you cannot be oblivious! It's on the mother of the sn child to make sure her child doesn't bother others.

I think that if I became aware after the fact that my sn child was bothering the other children, I would feel very apologetic and go out of my way to make amends, not expect others to accommodate me.

I do think the other children overreacted. But it can be scary to have a bigger kid come over to you, touch you, touch your food and tell you that your dress and hair are not pretty.

This may sound harsh, but the mother has to be aware that the onus is on her. The onus cannot be on the mother of the kalla, who suddenly has all of her grandhildren refusing to attend. She tried to do damage control in the best way she could.

Last year there was a double take story of a family who brought a dog to a heimish bungalow colony. They needed the dog for their sn child. The dog terrified the other kids who were not used to be around dogs. The mother of the sn child felt others should accommodate her family (which came along with the dog.) I disagree. If you are bringing in a dog or something that is scary to others, don't be oblivious to it. Not to compare a dog to a sn child. The point I'm making is that the mother has to have an awareness that her child can be difficult for others to handle and it's on her to be proactive about it, not foist her child on others and expect everyone to accommodate her. In the story, the mother seemed way to oblivious.

Plus, the story starts off with her being all organized about her teaching material. It also describes how she spends 10 times more on this child than the others. she is obviously aware enough of how difficult her child is why is it so hard for her to understand that others are not equipped to handle her child?

Signed a mother of an "invisible "sn child
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 7:16 am
Can someone please post a small summary of the story in reference ? I dont read the Michpacha , but am interested to hear what upset you so.
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amother
Diamond


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 7:45 am
happyone wrote:
Can someone please post a small summary of the story in reference ? I dont read the Michpacha , but am interested to hear what upset you so.


A woman has a 12 year old child that has "invisible" special needs. They get invited to a wedding out of town. The chosson is her brother in law I think.
The girl is very excited about the wedding and trip but of course in her own quirky way.
At the wedding all the little girls are seated together. The sn child- Toby- goes around touching the other kids, touching their gowns and hairdos and making comments (your dress is not pretty) and touching their plates of food. The children from the kalla's side are frightened of her. They run to their mothers. There is a scene at some point where one of the mothers tries to handle the situation. Toby's mother comes to the table also.
Basically Toby's mother is looking out for her daughters feelings and expects others to realize that she is different and make allowances for her. But the ther mother feels Toby needs to stop bothering the others. The other children leave the table to go sit with their mothers, which upsets the baales simcha who worked hard to arrange the seating.

The day after the wedding is Friday and they are getting ready for shabbos sheva brachos. The mother of the kalla gets phone calls from her children saying that their kids refuse to attend the shabbos sheva brachos because the wedding was so unpleasant for them. They are scared of Toby.

So the baalas simcha calls Toby's mother and asks if Toby can sit with her at the meals or if she or her husband can be with her during Shabbos so that the situation doesnt get out of hand. She says she is responsible to make sure all her guests are comfortable.

Toby's mother is horrified that her daughter is being treated like this. She thinks that her daughter will be very hurt if she is singled out. She also feels that this is a learning opportunity for the kids to see that some children have special needs. She offers to talk to the other kids and explain about Toby and special needs. The mother of the kalla feels that a simcha is not the time for learning opportunities and now it's about damage control.
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amother
Cadetblue


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 8:52 am
I have a SN child. Maybe when he was 12 it was ‘invisible’ but it was never invisible to me. Btw he’s 16 now & it’s very obvious to everyone. His demeanour, his body language, his posture. It IS how Hashem made him & we accept him for who he is 1000% but trips
& Simchas are challenging.
I sided with the kallahs family b/c it seems like this Toby was challenging for everyone. & it’s not fair to put it on everyone else at that Simcha. A family Simcha is not the time to be teaching these things after the incident happens. It was stated several times in the story.

So I have a story that happened to us at our own simcha & it’s 100 percent non fiction.

My own SN child was 14 when my son got married 3 years ago. He doesn’t do well with crowds & a lot of noise & for the wedding itself I hired a male shadow for him to make sure he was happy, maybe take him out of hall when too noisy etc so that our family could dance & enjoy & not have to worry. The shadow was a professional from an agency recommended to us.
At the end it wasn’t really needed that much but being proactive is the way to go.
The kallahs side of family has a boy about 9 with special needs also. He’s very different than my son - he loves attention, very social, loves the spotlight & his family knows what he needs & caters to those needs.

At shabbos Sheva brochas all of a sudden my own son starts shouting at this kid. Oysh. I took my son aside & spoke to him at the time and had to separate him from the group. but my son was being teased & made fun of by this other child & after my son telling him several times to leave him alone, & this child didn’t listen, my son had a burst of uncontrollable anger & shouted & looked like the bad guy.
So…what to do. I knew I had to do damage control.
I spoke to the mother the next day in a very non defensive way. people get sooooo defensive! There is nothing to be defensive about. These children need us as parents to be their advocate but it works both ways.
Other mom was so happy I spoke to her. He is her oldest & mine of my youngest. She has her hands full to say the least.
So she admitted that her son knows how to push buttons & likes to get reactions out of others & my son was the one this time. We both spoke to our boys & watched them closely the rest of the Simcha.

My opinion is:
My child is my responsibility
It doesn’t matter where we’re at or whose Simcha. Even if its my own.
I understand that there are teaching moments but in the story this girl was being a pain & annoying the other little kids. It’s not fair to everyone. Toby should be watched by the mom.
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amother
Mintgreen


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 8:56 am
I have a child who is maybe not SN, but can be disruptive. I would have either kept her with me or made sure an older child was keeping an eye on her. She’s younger than Toby (6 years old), so maybe it would have seemed less off. I spend a LOT of time making sure she’s not bothering people. Still I felt for Toby’s mother.
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amother
Glitter


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 9:00 am
amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:
I have a child who is maybe not SN, but can be disruptive. I would have either kept her with me or made sure an older child was keeping an eye on her. She’s younger than Toby (6 years old), so maybe it would have seemed less off. I spend a LOT of time making sure she’s not bothering people. Still I felt for Toby’s mother.


I think we all felt for Toby’s mother, but she seemed to be unable to feel for anyone else but Toby.
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amother
Sand


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 9:05 am
amother [ Diamond ] wrote:
I was disturbed by the story too.
But theoretically, if it was a real story, I actually sided with the mother of the kalla. I feel she had no choice in the matter.

I feel very much for the mother of the sn child. (I have a sn child as well.) But you cannot be oblivious! It's on the mother of the sn child to make sure her child doesn't bother others.

I think that if I became aware after the fact that my sn child was bothering the other children, I would feel very apologetic and go out of my way to make amends, not expect others to accommodate me.

I do think the other children overreacted. But it can be scary to have a bigger kid come over to you, touch you, touch your food and tell you that your dress and hair are not pretty.

This may sound harsh, but the mother has to be aware that the onus is on her. The onus cannot be on the mother of the kalla, who suddenly has all of her grandhildren refusing to attend. She tried to do damage control in the best way she could.

Last year there was a double take story of a family who brought a dog to a heimish bungalow colony. They needed the dog for their sn child. The dog terrified the other kids who were not used to be around dogs. The mother of the sn child felt others should accommodate her family (which came along with the dog.) I disagree. If you are bringing in a dog or something that is scary to others, don't be oblivious to it. Not to compare a dog to a sn child. The point I'm making is that the mother has to have an awareness that her child can be difficult for others to handle and it's on her to be proactive about it, not foist her child on others and expect everyone to accommodate her. In the story, the mother seemed way to oblivious.

Plus, the story starts off with her being all organized about her teaching material. It also describes how she spends 10 times more on this child than the others. she is obviously aware enough of how difficult her child is why is it so hard for her to understand that others are not equipped to handle her child?

Signed a mother of an "invisible "sn child


I agree with this, and I sided with the mother of the kallah too. The mother knew she has a difficult child, why wasn't she proactive about it to begin with? If she wanted it to be a teaching experience, reach out in advance, explain the situation, and give the parents time to educate the kids how to handle such situations. If the kids were prepared for this in advance, they probably wouldn't have reacted in the same manner. During the simcha is not the place to teach little kids how to handle this. Even more so, once they were frightened and scared, you can't teach them right there and then. You have to give them time to calm down and feel safe again, and then you can discuss the situation with them.

The onus is on the mother, and not 'let this be a learning experience for everyone'. She should have discussed this with the other side before the simcha and also hired someone to shadow her daughter.
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amother
Daphne


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 9:16 am
I think many of us who work with sn see this could've been so easily avoided with a shadow and a little advance notice. A wedding is not a time for "learning experiences"! So much work goes into preparations - hair, dresses, makeup and being touched or insulted is very uncomfortable even if it's a sn child.
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amother
Diamond


 

Post Sun, Aug 15 2021, 9:28 am
I have a down syndrome cousin, who was about 10 years younger than me. I was not close to her, as I lived in a different city.

At my wedding, right after the chuppa, as I was walking down the aisle with my brand new husband, this cousin attached herself to me, grabbing onto my hand. She reveled in the attention of being with the kalla. I remember being caught off gaurd but went with it.

At the dancing, she inserted herself in every single dance. I remember dancing with my best friend, but my cousin pushed right in, and it was a threesome. My kids remark that this cousin is in every picture of mine by the dancing. As a kalla, I felt all eyes on me. I couldn't push her away. I was gracious about it, and tried not to let it bother me.

But where was the girl's mother (my aunt)?? Where were all of her sisters and sisters in law ? (This girl is one of over a dozen kids.) Where were the aunts? Why did no one bother to realize that this was not fair to me (the kalla) to suddenly have to have this down syndrome child attached to me during the whole wedding? I'm sure many people assumed I was very close with this girl. In fact I dont think she even knew me. She just loved Kallas and weddings.

Though I'm married about 25 years, this story brought up memories of my own wedding where the mother of a special needs child seemed oblivious to how her child was affecting others at a simcha.
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