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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
"You hate me, right? You wish I was different?"
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amother
Apple


 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 9:02 am
bigsis144 wrote:
He has been on medication in the past, but it’s not a magical cure. When he straight up says, “I’m only taking this to prove that this does nothing and the only reason you make me take it is to enjoy seeing me choke while I swallow a pill”, it’s no surprise that his (conscious or unconscious) self-sabotage would outweigh any benefits of the meds.

(Just answering you quickly, though I did say in my OP that this wasn’t a “ask about what I’ve tried” kind of thread.)


Yes I did see you OP, but medication was worth asking about😉 sorry if the questions are driving you crazy.
I have a similar child (much less intense bh) so I understand your struggles.
These type of kids need so much extra love but it’s so much harder to give it to them.
Maybe it’s worth revisiting the medication route? Try different ones? While not simple or an easy fix, it does help so many children like these.
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 9:04 am
bigsis144 wrote:
He has been on medication in the past, but it’s not a magical cure. When he straight up says, “I’m only taking this to prove that this does nothing and the only reason you make me take it is to enjoy seeing me choke while I swallow a pill”, it’s no surprise that his (conscious or unconscious) self-sabotage would outweigh any benefits of the meds.

(Just answering you quickly, though I did say in my OP that this wasn’t a “ask about what I’ve tried” kind of thread.)


Would you consider this program for him?

https://ubhc.rutgers.edu/clini.....gram-(ages-4-13-years).xml

I know he is doing-ish OK in school, but maybe the intensive environment would be good for him.

Most kids stay for a year or two, so it is not giving up on yeshiva forever.
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bigsis144




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 9:10 am
To those recommending schools: I don’t live in the NY/NJ area, so thank you for the links but Baltimore or DC are closer and more feasible.
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amother
Tealblue


 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 9:30 am
I was a difficult kid. If I were you, I would set very firm boundaries, which I'm sure is something you've tried, but I think this is the absolute most important thing you can do. He doesn't know how to handle himself and needs your help to save him from himself.

If he brandishes a knife, I would tell him in no uncertain terms that he is to put it down immediately, or you will call the police.
And that the next time he dares to pick up a knife to anyone you will call the police without a warning. He needs a healthy fear of consequences. It's not acceptable for anyone to threaten your children with a knife, no matter who that someone is. You need to teach him the consequences of violent behavior, because the outside world will not be as forgiving as you are.

When my ds was acting violent last spring during corona lockdown, I actually ended up calling Hatzolah, and they were great. Don't know if that's an option for you.

You need to have some recourse against his behavior. If you like, at a calm time you can sit him down and explain to him what happens to people who act violently: I.e. jail or a psych ward. And don't be scared off if he says "go ahead, you just want to lock me up, don't you." Tell him that you don't want to, but his behavior may not give you a choice, because there are certain things that are just not acceptable. Or if his behavior is not at that level yet, warn him that this could be a possibility down the road if he doesn't start reining himself in now. It's important for him to get the message that you love and will always love HIM, but these behaviors are not a part of him, and you will not accept them.

It would be great if you can catch him in a more open, trusting mood when he'll be able to acknowledge to you verbally that he just can't control himself sometimes. He may be able to admit this if he's calm and he feels that you love him and are listening. Before bedtime when they're in bed winding down is a great time for kids to feel more open. Maybe first play a quiet game or do a calm activity he likes. Ask him if he would like help to control himself, and tell him that that's what medication is for. It helps people to overcome their brain chemistry and live successful, happy lives. But the main thing is to set boundaries, even without the medication discussion. Don't feel pressure to convince him about meds because that will backfire, as you've seen. You want him to want it by himself.

As far as sending him away, I think there might be a benefit in sending him to the home of a beloved family member or family friend for a week or so. If there is anyone whose home you can send him to, where you know he will behave and you can both get a little break from each other, that could be a good move.
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DVOM




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 10:10 am
SafeAtLast wrote:
He isn’t imagining it. OP is admitting that she wishes he were different.
Kids feel these things.


Is there any value in answering honestly?

I love you so much, but yes, I do wish you were different. It's really hard for you to get along with your siblings and solve problems without getting into fights and hurting other people. I wish these things weren't so challenging for you. You've got tenacity and guts and your strong and fearless. Those are all good things when you can channel them right. But right now, those middot get you into a lot of trouble.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 10:53 am
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
Would you consider this program for him?

https://ubhc.rutgers.edu/clini.....gram-(ages-4-13-years).xml


The link didn't work for me. I found this at the Rutgers site:

https://ubhc.rutgers.edu/clini.....s.xml

Acute and Emergency Services
Emergency Mental Health Treatment
Program Services

24/7 access to emergency evaluations for individuals of all ages at imminent risk of harm to self or others due to a mental health condition.

24/7 availability for outreach evaluations in community settings including consumer home location.

Referral and linkage to appropriate aftercare including outpatient treatment, partial hospitalization, substance abuse treatment, voluntary hospitalization, and involuntary hospitalization.

Linkage to case management and family support as appropriate.

Designated Screening Services – Middlesex and Essex Counties

Middlesex #: 1-855-515-5700
Essex#: 973-623-2323
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 11:29 am
Who said you need to love him?
ETA clip has bad language so sorry!


The you are my son is the most important thing for him to hear. You do not need to love him all the time. Love is an emotion we sometimes feel. You may not always love him and that is ok and ok for him to hear, but he will always be your son.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 12:08 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
To those recommending schools: I don’t live in the NY/NJ area, so thank you for the links but Baltimore or DC are closer and more feasible.


The best way to do this is to contact your local public school district. They would do a full evaluation and recommend the therapeutic schools in your area. You would need to get an out of district placement for a therapeutic school. They have staff that specialize in this area.
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Tue, Aug 17 2021, 12:11 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
The link didn't work for me. I found this at the Rutgers site:

https://ubhc.rutgers.edu/clini.....s.xml

Acute and Emergency Services
Emergency Mental Health Treatment
Program Services

24/7 access to emergency evaluations for individuals of all ages at imminent risk of harm to self or others due to a mental health condition.

24/7 availability for outreach evaluations in community settings including consumer home location.

Referral and linkage to appropriate aftercare including outpatient treatment, partial hospitalization, substance abuse treatment, voluntary hospitalization, and involuntary hospitalization.

Linkage to case management and family support as appropriate.

Designated Screening Services – Middlesex and Essex Counties

Middlesex #: 1-855-515-5700
Essex#: 973-623-2323


No. Not that.

This

Rutgers Day School Child Program (ages 4 - 13 years)
Rutgers Day School (RDS) is an out-of-district special education school located within the Rutgers UBHC Building in Piscataway. The mission of our school is to provide educational and therapeutic services in an integrated manner to children whose psychiatric, behavioral and learning problems are too severe for them to be educated effectively in their local school systems. The RDS Child Program includes eight therapeutic classrooms with a total capacity of sixty children. Although the ages of our students range from four years old through thirteen, over ninety percent of our students are between the ages of five through eleven at the time of admission. The educational range is between preschool and seventh grade. Planned lengths of stay typically range from one to three years. All referrals for RDS are from local school systems or from the Office of Education. The sending school districts or the Office of Education support the costs of placement through tuition payments.


I know BigSis doesn't live in NJ, but maybe there is something similar near her.
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amother
Sand


 

Post Wed, Aug 18 2021, 12:47 am
He may be developing a personality disorder. I think you would benefit from the book “Stop Walking on Eggshells” - a book about loving someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. Even if BPD is not the diagnosis of your son, the book gives you a wealth of helpful information and the tools you need to deal with the type of behavior you described.
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amother
Kiwi


 

Post Wed, Aug 18 2021, 2:18 am
I think you are stronger than your son. Why does he get to decide if he wants to medicate or do therapy or not? I know you need to get his cooperation, but he shouldn't be given the option, if he wants to.
If chas v'sholom he would have a physical illness would you let him decide if he gets treatment or not? ⁰
Some things kids need to do even if he doesn't like it or it it is uncomfortable whether they understand that it is to their benefit or not, the parent is the wiser one & knows what's for the benefit of the child.
I know in this liberal country they are trying to make the kids make the medical decisions and don't treat without kids consentl, but is wrong,p because which kid wants to go thru pain of treatment when asked, they don't yet comprehend long term repercussions of no treatment, just try to avoid the pain of the here & now.
I am so happy that I didn't allow them to do it to my child, which they tried.
He is totally testing you when he says such comments, but please don't take it personally. I know it's excruciatingly painful to hear, but think of it as his illness talking.
When he says he hates you, then say, too bad but I will anyway love you. If he says, you are the worst mom, you can use humor & say well you can go look for a better one etc. Just don't defend yourself, or argue, or prove yourself or explain. You are not on his level, you are not his peer, don't go down to his level.
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dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 18 2021, 2:40 am
Would an ABA program help him?
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amother
Quince


 

Post Wed, Aug 18 2021, 6:13 am
dankbar wrote:
Would an ABA program help him?



ABA is nothing but puppy training leaving children behind with PTSD I still can't understand as a professional (in the EU) that so many people are still promoting this nazilike practice.
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amother
Fern


 

Post Wed, Aug 18 2021, 7:08 am
saw50st8 wrote:
The best way to do this is to contact your local public school district. They would do a full evaluation and recommend the therapeutic schools in your area. You would need to get an out of district placement for a therapeutic school. They have staff that specialize in this area.

Yes. I worked in the Baltimore area public school system, and I did have a few of students who sound very similar to op's son. There isn't as much available as in the NY area, but there are programs. A couple of the kids had short residential stays at Shepard Pratt in the pediatric wing, but still came to school every day.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 18 2021, 10:42 am
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
No. Not that.

This

Rutgers Day School Child Program (ages 4 - 13 years)
Rutgers Day School (RDS) is an out-of-district special education school located within the Rutgers UBHC Building in Piscataway. The mission of our school is to provide educational and therapeutic services in an integrated manner to children whose psychiatric, behavioral and learning problems are too severe for them to be educated effectively in their local school systems. The RDS Child Program includes eight therapeutic classrooms with a total capacity of sixty children. Although the ages of our students range from four years old through thirteen, over ninety percent of our students are between the ages of five through eleven at the time of admission. The educational range is between preschool and seventh grade. Planned lengths of stay typically range from one to three years. All referrals for RDS are from local school systems or from the Office of Education. The sending school districts or the Office of Education support the costs of placement through tuition payments.


I know BigSis doesn't live in NJ, but maybe there is something similar near her.


Wow, that sounds perfect. If I were OP, I'd try to get DS in there, and then visit when possible.

He has the whole rest of his life ahead of him, and an intensive program could be just what he needs to set himself up for success. The sooner the better.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:04 am
OP, I can’t even imagine the toll this must be taking on you. Where is your husband in all of this??
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amother
Lightgray


 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:24 am
Look into The Baltimore Academy. Check out any other appropriate options.
https://www.baltimoreschild.co.....hool/
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amother
Poppy


 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:40 am
amother [ Quince ] wrote:
ABA is nothing but puppy training leaving children behind with PTSD I still can't understand as a professional (in the EU) that so many people are still promoting this nazilike practice.

I’ve seen you write this more then once here.
Aba has changed my sons life and a few friends childrens lives. My bcba practices the nurtured heart approach and she has taught it to us.
Please stop bashing aba just because you might have had a bad personal experience with it. Many many people have been given back their children with it.
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:44 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Wow, that sounds perfect. If I were OP, I'd try to get DS in there, and then visit when possible.

He has the whole rest of his life ahead of him, and an intensive program could be just what he needs to set himself up for success. The sooner the better.


It's a day program, not residential.

But there must be similar programs in other states.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 3:52 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
The best way to do this is to contact your local public school district. They would do a full evaluation and recommend the therapeutic schools in your area. You would need to get an out of district placement for a therapeutic school. They have staff that specialize in this area.


OP is there a reason you haven’t done this yet? Is your dh opposed to sending him to public school?
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