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Can any school administrator please explain?
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amother




Blush
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:14 pm
amother [ Blushpink ] wrote:
It's not only kollel families where the wife/mother needs to work. Plenty of families need 2 full time jobs in order to make ends meet. It's not the 1980s anymore! Lots of inflation and 1 paycheck just doesn't cover it all.
Sometime I think imamother skews very young, and this is one of those times;)


I agree with this. What I find extremely hypocritical is not so much the kollel part, but that the schools send a huge tuition bill and expect the parents to be able to pay it. Then they give off a ton and wonder why parents can't pay full tuition. Um, maybe because you don't allow us to actually get in any work days?! So either one parent has to take off for all the boys days off and girls days off (which are never the same of course), and all the half days off. Or both parents keep working but have to pay for additional childcare which adds up quickly and can end up being thousands of dollars a year.

You want to say that school isn't babysitting? fine, it's not. But then doesn't expect me to be able to pay for 10 full months of school when you don't even provide 10 months of school. If you're all providing is the minimum 180 days mandated by th state then you can expect to get paid for that. I'm not trying to be selfish or greedy. Both my husband and I work crazy hard but we are simply not ATM machines who are loaded with cash. If we need to include an amount in our budget for childcare for days (and weeks) off then that is going to reduce the amount we can pay in tuition. I'm simple math.
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amother




Dimgray
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:23 pm
amother [ Strawberry ] wrote:
I completely agree with you that there is way too many expectations of us mothers. It’s very stressful and challenging to juggle all ( or most ) of the balls.
In regards to what families do, it’s very individual. In most homes where both parents are working kids go to camp ( and all the in- between camps) There are also families that take a real financial hit by having a parent home during the summer. Every family makes choices that are best for their individual situation.


There aren't solutions for every family, that's exactly what some of us are trying to say here. The in-between camp is only for the real little ones, what are you to do with the in-between-aged kids. Too old to go to these, too young to stay home alone all day long? What job - other than school jobs - allow parents to take a whole summer off? We end up tearing ourselves apart, and dropping off our unhappy kids every day on someone else's heads. We're going mad trying to satisfy our kids needs and our job's needs - as well as considering that YT is here in two weeks. We have unhappy kids, unhappy bosses, and parents that are stressed to dangerous levels.

So again, please give more specifics what working parents are to do in such situations? We are very well aware of those pathetically few options you've suggested - but they only work for a select few. What should the majority do?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:29 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
Where we live, the middle school boys need more going on. Sending to a 4 week sleepaway Camp with no summer yeshiva camp like Lakewood has leaves them with too much down time (6 weeks!). I wish we could change this. We actually tried this year. Every Rebbe we spoke to was too busy to think about it.

Are you saying we because you're in my city?
At least this city has a day camp option for 6 of the weeks through middle school boys.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:32 pm
My boys only have 5 weeks off and I think it's too short
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amother




Lavender
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:35 pm
I work in public school...nj... children have 180 days mandatory...so if we have snow days they are added to the end of the school year...this year school was extended by 4 or 5 days...
Count the days your child is in a bais yakov for the year (I did) and you’ll see it’s less...
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amother




Peony
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:39 pm
I think OP was raising two points- one, is this best for the children, and second that it’s so difficult for parents.
If the school administrators are asking me I’d say to keep things as they are- bc even though it’s so difficult as a working parent I still think it’s better for my kids.
This is really a two pronged conversation.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:02 pm
My question is even more basic
Did the administration sit down anytime in the past decade to reevaluate this structure?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:15 pm
Do you think that there's this one global organization called "the administration"?
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:25 pm
No
Hence my question was addressed to anyone who is on the administration in their particular school
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 10:26 pm
keym wrote:
I actually like the boys school schedule in Lakewood.
The first 3 weeks of the summer is yeshiva in the morning and sports, swimming, crafts, hunts, and even a trip or two in the afternoon.
Then half a week off.
4 weeks of camp.
A week and a half off.
Then school starts.
Total they have 6 weeks vacation and 4 of those weeks have camp, 2 they can veg.

Though this year is a problem that the first 2 weeks of school, most don't have English so they're only in school until 1-3 depending on the school and grade.

But in general, I like the balance.


Yes this makes more sense.

And girls could have some extra vacation breaks during the school year.

But our bungalow culture and sleep away camps are set up for a two month break, so....
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GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 11:27 pm
When most people lived on farms school was in the winter-winter term and the summer-summer term with spring and fall-planting and harvesting time off.

With more people moving into cities, schools began giving off in the summer because there was no air conditioning and many illness like malaria and polio hit in the summer so it was considered safer to send the kids to the country side. Add Rickets and the kids would come back healthier- there were many funds set up so poor city kids can enjoy the great out doors.

Now we have air conditioning we don't have to worry about most of the illness that made people send there kids away in the summer, is it a time to reevaluate school breaks?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 11:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
No
Hence my question was addressed to anyone who is on the administration in their particular school

Wink
I'm not an educational administrator but qualified to answer anyway.
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amother




Violet
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 11:35 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Yes this makes more sense.

And girls could have some extra vacation breaks during the school year.

But our bungalow culture and sleep away camps are set up for a two month break, so....


What came first, the chicken or the egg??
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amother




NeonYellow
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 11:44 pm
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
but my kids start end aug and sept 2 with half days for a few days and no bussing, kollel or working families with 2 working parents, how do ppl pick up their children at 12:25 or 1:00 and leave work in the middle of the day?

and this happens on fast days as well. the school year and days are not designed for 2 full time working parents whether kollel or not, yet they expect $ for tuition. no, they are not designing school for working parents. so, if you want to question summer break, what about half fast days? I dont get off on fast days, why shld teachers? well, bec many teachers are working hard for little pay and challenging situations. and, teachers have to put in their own time to prepare and grade.

theres no way to set up the school year/days to accomodate everyone. its def. not set up for 2 working parents.(and this is not just a problem for kollel families)



Yes! Schools opening up this year in August and not having bussing till mid September--what in the world??? I'm in Brooklyn but we don't live near anyone (literally no frum Jews within a several block radius, and no one from my kids schools withing a 15 min drive). We can't carpool. Dh is a full day rebbe (8-6) and I teach in the afternoon (till 4:45). And I'm somehow supposed to pick up 6 kids from four locations daily from the 25th till the 13th at 4:00. Four separate locations, spread across Boro park and Flatbush, at the exact same time, while teaching. And I've asked and asked but no one can take my kids. (Funny enough, because I don't work mornings, I often do and will continue to this year, drive other people's kids in the am when there's no bus. But it's on my way to the schools. We live far out, no one is willing or able to bring my kids. Even though I take their kids in the morning.) I'm looking for a reliable driver to pay (my kids are pretty little) and that's slim pickings too. I feel so stuck....
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amother




Stoneblue
 

Post Sun, Aug 22 2021, 11:59 pm
The American school calendar was set to meet the needs of an agrarian society. Kids got a long break in the summer so they could help out on the farm. Classes began at 9 and ended at 3 so that children had daylight hours to help with chores before and after school.

The schedule does not reflect the world in which we live, but teachers' unions protect the status quo. There's no way they'll be willing to work longer days, for eleven months a year. And Jewish schools tend to follow public schools.

Vacation is a good thing, but being out of school for 10-12 weeks straight means that most kids regress a little. There is such a thing as too much down time.

In communities where parents have a say (so probably not Lakewood? I don't know) day school boards try to be responsive to parental input. It's too late for this year, but volunteer to sit on a calendar committee. You'll see the balancing act that schools play. Sometimes they really are clueless, but sometimes they have other pressures as well - teachers who have summer jobs, using the vacation to schedule repairs to the building, etc.

The system is out of date, but it's hard to fix.
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amother




Salmon
 

Post Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:04 am
amother [ NeonYellow ] wrote:
Yes! Schools opening up this year in August and not having bussing till mid September--what in the world??? I'm in Brooklyn but we don't live near anyone (literally no frum Jews within a several block radius, and no one from my kids schools withing a 15 min drive). We can't carpool. Dh is a full day rebbe (8-6) and I teach in the afternoon (till 4:45). And I'm somehow supposed to pick up 6 kids from four locations daily from the 25th till the 13th at 4:00. Four separate locations, spread across Boro park and Flatbush, at the exact same time, while teaching. And I've asked and asked but no one can take my kids. (Funny enough, because I don't work mornings, I often do and will continue to this year, drive other people's kids in the am when there's no bus. But it's on my way to the schools. We live far out, no one is willing or able to bring my kids. Even though I take their kids in the morning.) I'm looking for a reliable driver to pay (my kids are pretty little) and that's slim pickings too. I feel so stuck....

Would they be willing to take your kid to their home, and then you'll pick them up from there 30 minutes later?
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amother




Melon
 

Post Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:04 am
amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:
So then why don't you tell us exactly how it should be done? Should the mother give up her job? Should she not have a large family so she can better deal with this? Should she expect her older children to be the mommy in the house for all these days? Should the father stay home from kollel? You can't just throw out expectations without explaining how it can be done. So shoot - I'm all ears.

This is a prime example of why we have so many stressed out mothers. It's the mothers responsibility to bring in parnossoh so that her husband can learn. It's the mother's responsibility to be able to take off from work to ensure a well balanced summer. It's the mother's responsibility to have large families (or both parent's responsibility). It's the mother responsibility to prepare for a wonderful and spiritual YT all the while juggling her work duties and taking care of the kids during these off days. Etc.

It's come to a point in time where this is just ridiculous. Perhaps its time to go back to promote a household where there is always one SAH parent.

So beautifully put.

Maybe this schedule works if the parents can afford to have one parent stay home, but most mothers I know work because of tuition....

Maybe it's great for kids to have lots of unstructured time off, but I really don't believe it's great to have lots of unstructured time off without parental supervision, which is what will happen if both parents have to work. And we work because of... tuition... and we have large families so there's lots of tuition....
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GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:10 am
amother [ Stoneblue ] wrote:
The American school calendar was set to meet the needs of an agrarian society. Kids got a long break in the summer so they could help out on the farm.


When the US was an agrarian society they had school in the summer and had off in the spring and fall.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:40 am
Amen to all the posters who state the obvious: this system isn't working.
-spoken by a mother who is in the throes of a nervous breakdown due to trying to be everything to everyone. Guess what? The schools all had to give us a huge tuition discount due to my very high mental health treatment bills and having had to stop working due to this all.
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amother




Ivory
 

Post Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:46 am
amother [ Stoneblue ] wrote:


In communities where parents have a say (so probably not Lakewood? I don't know) day school boards try to be responsive to parental input. It's too late for this year, but volunteer to sit on a calendar committee. You'll see the balancing act that schools play. Sometimes they really are clueless, but sometimes they have other pressures as well - teachers who have summer jobs, using the vacation to schedule repairs to the building, etc.

The system is out of date, but it's hard to fix.


in which yeshiva school system do parents really have a say? hardly any ....unless you have a lot of money and you are on the board in which case, you can hire a full time nanny with no financial trouble for the days off or the woman is a sahm and the dh is wealthy and has a say bec he is on the board.


no! most parents do not have a say....its so hard just to get our kids into schools...if we had a say, there would be no issues bec then we would be able to force schools to accept certain kids....its all about $, if you have it and give "extra" to the school, you have a say.
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