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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
I find this unfair
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hardworking mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 02 2021, 11:32 pm
amother [ Moccasin ] wrote:
Yes this 1000%%%. My son (who is a very blunt kid )threw a fit & said my school is abnormal Bc the kid can barely sing .
When I menthioned it to the Rebbe, he said that it’s true the parents called and insisted that their kid is picked and his hands were tide .

And do you think that's healthy for the kid?
He knows he can't sing
He knows he didn't get in based on his own merit
What do you think he feels like when all the other kids some who have great voices don't get in
I don't think it's such a great feeling
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agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 02 2021, 11:34 pm
amother [ DarkViolet ] wrote:
And you think that's healthy for a kid? The kid knows he can't sing and the only reason he was picked had nothing to do with him or his talents. Do you think he'll feel good at the end of the day? When his parents praise him what a great job he did? When the other kids look at him like hey you know you can't sing...


I think these kids are deluded.

They think they CAN sing, they ARE the best, they DO deserve everything and MORE, and if you don't bring it to them fast enough, oy va voy.

You think the rich kids feel embarrassed for getting things they don't deserve? I don't. I think they are used to people fawning over them, they expect it, and when they get older, they'll demand it for their own kids.

It's a vicious cycle.
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Thu, Sep 02 2021, 11:35 pm
amother [ Sand ] wrote:
Our boys’ school has a dinner every year with a choir. It’s well known that someone high up in administration hand picks the boys who get solos, not the choir director.



Lolol.
In our school, it tends to be the same kids that get the solos. Other kids have just as good or better voices.
I overheard two mothers talking at the dinner, and one, call her Mrs A, said to another, call her Mrs B, "it's so crazy that they don't give other boys a chance at singing."
Mrs B, whose husband is a rebbi, said, "yeah, it's a crazy. My dh said that there are parents that call the school and insist/beg them to give their kid a solo!"

Anyway, 20 min later I'm watching the choir perform, and TWO OF MRS B'S SOME (a rebbi's sons) HAVE SOLOS! NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE!!!!

I just thought Can't Believe It Confused LOL
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hardworking mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 02 2021, 11:48 pm
agreer wrote:
I think these kids are deluded.

They think they CAN sing, they ARE the best, they DO deserve everything and MORE, and if you don't bring it to them fast enough, oy va voy.

You think the rich kids feel embarrassed for getting things they don't deserve? I don't. I think they are used to people fawning over them, they expect it, and when they get older, they'll demand it for their own kids.

It's a vicious cycle.

Not all are. At least I wasn't. I was given a high school job every year to decorate for the chanukah party. It was considered a very good job that everyone wanted (smack in the middle of the year) and only the lucky few were chosen. I was picked because they wanted some party decor from my parents. Sorry but I did not feel lucky or that I deserved it I just felt used
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amother
Latte


 

Post Thu, Sep 02 2021, 11:50 pm
It’s really never a good idea to get invested in high school or 8th grade politics. Your daughter being choir head will not be the slot on her resume that gets her into Julliard. It really matters not at all.

In life your boss will most certainly never be the brightest or the best at his company. That’s how it is. The important thing to learn is that your daughter be the best she can be. If she wants to sing in choir, relate to her love of music and encourage her to attend practice on time. If she wants to do any of the other committee work, emphasize doing a job well. That’s what serves you in life best.

Don’t take up the gauntlet for your daughter. It’s really not worth your time or energy, and will only make her feel frustrated and upset.

And it is possible that the jobs went to qualified people.
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amother
Acacia


 

Post Thu, Sep 02 2021, 11:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am so confused. My daughters class got 8th grade jobs today and the 3 top jobs which was divided between 10 girls went to the rich snobby popular (mean) kids. why?

can any teachers involved in this process chime in.
is this the school kissing up to these parents for all the extra donations?


My daughters class too.
Is it the same school? Lol

What are the top 2 jobs and yeh my daughter said that too..
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 12:05 am
It rubs me the wrong way too, but on the other hand the school is still a business. It is not the end of the world if they give a teenager a "prestigious" extra curricular job in exchange for $10,000 or so to pay staff members. It's not like they are cheating or giving her grades she doesn't deserve.

I just wish they would be more honest about the process and would stop pretending that the kind of job a girl gets is a reflection of her character and talents.
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amother
DarkViolet


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 12:17 am
sushilover wrote:
It rubs me the wrong way too, but on the other hand the school is still a business. It is not the end of the world if they give a teenager a "prestigious" extra curricular job in exchange for $10,000 or so to pay staff members. It's not like they are cheating or giving her grades she doesn't deserve.

I just wish they would be more honest about the process and would stop pretending that the kind of job a girl gets is a reflection of her character and talents.

YES IT DEFINITELY DEFINITELY IS CHEATING
You think the other parents aren't paying tuition? So they don't have thousands of dollars to throw around.
Their "business" is to be mechanech our children (all of them)
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amother
Ghostwhite


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 8:46 am
amother [ DarkViolet ] wrote:
YES IT DEFINITELY DEFINITELY IS CHEATING
You think the other parents aren't paying tuition? So they don't have thousands of dollars to throw around.
Their "business" is to be mechanech our children (all of them)


Welcome to the real world, where everyone pretends to be all self-righteous, until they have their own skin in the game. The schools preach all about having all the kids feel good, give out all kind of effort awards, etc, but when it comes to their own skin (I.e. donations), all that goes out the window. The schools make all kinds of rules, but again when it comes to their own skin (I.e. money), that goes out the window too. For example, when I was in school, there was a rule against mother's driving. But there was one parent who was allowed to drive. Yes, she was filthy rich and donated a lot to the school.

Skin in the game is not only about money, it is also about preferred actions too. Schools always claim that we are in a partnership, and we need to work together for the chinuch of our kids. But this is also very one-sided. They pull this card every time they want something from us, but when we need something from their end, they present a deaf ear.

Kids are not stupid, they see through this as they get older. It casts a shadow on the chinuch that they receive from the schools because of this hypocrisy.

(Disclaimer - there are some schools that are above board, but they're few and far between).
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 12:03 pm
I got a lot of honors in my school and my parents were far from rich. It's not everywhere.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 12:12 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am so confused. My daughters class got 8th grade jobs today and the 3 top jobs which was divided between 10 girls went to the rich snobby popular (mean) kids. why?

can any teachers involved in this process chime in.
is this the school kissing up to these parents for all the extra donations?



No...Say it aint so, Joe Very Happy
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amother
DarkYellow


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 12:37 pm
I am a principal in a girls high school (no further details of where or what type) and although I believe that this occurs, I am honestly trying to figure out how this would actually go down. I am trying to picture the meeting where we have the input of teachers and other school administrators and one of them says we should give the job to the rich kid.

How does that work? Everyone just nods and goes along with it?

Can't picture it. There are so many checks and balances in this very complicated, challenging, and difficult process that I can't picture pulling that off.. ..
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 1:19 pm
I doubt it happens in a meeting. More like a phone call telling principal to make sure to put so and so's name in when the jobs are given out...very important, etc...

I think this does occur, but not exclusively.

I also know that there are parents who will call the school to make sure their kids get solos, etc....but want to say, this is not exclusive to wealthy people. I've been in the position of being "encouraged" to give a role to people who just need their darlings to have it.

I happen to be friendly with someone who used to be in charge of a production in my girls' schools. Both my girls were given solos under her reign. She did it herself - I never said a word, and I'm not one to measure my kids' self-worth by their visibility in such things. Though they do have good voices and were suited to the role involved (like one DD is very petite, and she was given a solo/role for a young child in the play....). But just saying - it's not like the rich or askan necessarily promotes his own kid (don't get the wrong impression - DH and I are neither!). Sometimes others do it for them without asking.

I was once at a dinner for my child's school, and I found myself sitting next to the wife of a very wealthy and influential person in town. The dinner photographer came to the table to take a picture of her. I felt so bad for her - she looked thorougly uncomfortable.
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amother
DarkYellow


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 1:23 pm
Of course I understand how it can happen in a subtle way every once in a while, just trying to figure out how it takes place in such an official open way such as op and others suggested. As if that is the official operating model of schools everywhere.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 1:31 pm
amother [ DarkYellow ] wrote:
Of course I understand how it can happen in a subtle way every once in a while, just trying to figure out how it takes place in such an official open way such as op and others suggested. As if that is the official operating model of schools everywhere.


I don't think it is. Just that it "happens".

I also think that it's entirely possible that there are some kids, daughters of the wealthy or askanim, etc...who might happen to have inherited certain leadership abilities or other talents, from said person.....and these kids are also deserving of the opportunity to use these abilities and talents, even if they were born wealthy or privileged.
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amother
Butterscotch


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 1:33 pm
Last year my niece was head of GO and valedictorian!
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I’m sure there was a lot of jealousy there. The parents are school sponsors….
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amother
DarkYellow


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 1:43 pm
Chayalle wrote:
I don't think it is. Just that it "happens".

I also think that it's entirely possible that there are some kids, daughters of the wealthy or askanim, etc...who might happen to have inherited certain leadership abilities or other talents, from said person.....and these kids are also deserving of the opportunity to use these abilities and talents, even if they were born wealthy or privileged.


I agree 👍
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amother
DarkViolet


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 3:36 pm
amother [ DarkYellow ] wrote:
I agree 👍

Yes but if you give the askans child the job head of go, head of play, and the main part. And then give a different child especially one who doesn't have an easy life a "job" something no one cares about and will never put her in the limelight...
Yeah excuses excuses
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 3:44 pm
I do think it should be like one job per girl. Or one from the main group of categories. Like, I was yearbook editor in high school, and I also had a minor job for production. No one got to be both GO, Production head, big yearbook job, and valedictorian.
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amother
Sand


 

Post Fri, Sep 03 2021, 3:51 pm
amother [ DarkViolet ] wrote:
And you think that's healthy for a kid? The kid knows he can't sing and the only reason he was picked had nothing to do with him or his talents. Do you think he'll feel good at the end of the day? When his parents praise him what a great job he did? When the other kids look at him like hey you know you can't sing...


No. If it were my kid, I would say that Moishy deserves it, because he sings so nicely. Let’s be happy that someone who deserves it, got it.
But then, I’m not prestigious and would not complain if my kid didn’t get a solo.
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