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Help needed for a father to see his children in Israel!
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 11:48 pm
Thanks so much, everyone, for your helpful advice and sympathy. Been so busy that didn't have time to respond but to sum up:
He doesn't have their birth certificates or a way to procure them. He said the mother probably misplaced them.
The children aren't citizens, nor do they have Israeli passports.
The children are young, well under 18 and won't fly anywhere without their mother.
The mother won't go out of her way at all to make this happen so he has no help from that end.
He already spoke with Chaim V'Chesed, as well as Amudim and seems he just doesn't have the proper paperwork.
Making aliyah isn't an option. He lives and works in the US and won't have any support system in Israel.
Yes, he's divorced and the children stayed in Israel with their mother. He was visiting them a few times a year until Covid happened.
He can't go as a student as is too old.
It's just mind boggling how ppl are traveling all over the place and he can't see his own children. Can't Believe It :cry
It's just one long sad heartbreaking story.
Will daven for a nes.
If you hear or think of any other options, let me know.
Thanks and gmar chasima tova to all!
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amother




Daisy
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 11:55 pm
If the children were born in the U.S., he can apply to get a copy of their lost birth certificates. To do so he needs to contact the vital records office in the State where the child was born. We did this after losing the birth certificate of our son during a move and it was much easier than I thought it would be.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 11:59 pm
Thanks, they were born in Israel. Sad
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bobeli




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 12:00 am
In some states you can do it online, it might take some time because of the virus.
There are some groups that can go in if people are vaccinated or recovered, maybe he can join one
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 12:12 am
Here's how to get a birth certificate. It's free.
https://www.gov.il/en/service/.....icate

He will need a teudat zehut number or other ID number of the child.

ETA, the form assumes that he lives in Israel and has an address there. He may be better off giving someone power of attorney to make the request on his behalf. I'm guessing that a family lawyer would be the best resource here, if the mother of the children is unwilling to share the documents.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 12:39 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks so much, everyone, for your helpful advice and sympathy. Been so busy that didn't have time to respond but to sum up:
He doesn't have their birth certificates or a way to procure them. He said the mother probably misplaced them.
The children aren't citizens, nor do they have Israeli passports.
The children are young, well under 18 and won't fly anywhere without their mother.
The mother won't go out of her way at all to make this happen so he has no help from that end.
He already spoke with Chaim V'Chesed, as well as Amudim and seems he just doesn't have the proper paperwork.
Making aliyah isn't an option. He lives and works in the US and won't have any support system in Israel.
Yes, he's divorced and the children stayed in Israel with their mother. He was visiting them a few times a year until Covid happened.
He can't go as a student as is too old.
It's just mind boggling how ppl are traveling all over the place and he can't see his own children. Can't Believe It :cry
It's just one long sad heartbreaking story.
Will daven for a nes.
If you hear or think of any other options, let me know.
Thanks and gmar chasima tova to all!


Again, he doesn't have to live here to get citizenship, and if he's a citizen, he'll be free to enter/leave whenever he likes.

Birth certificates can be got for free from the government, if that helps. I'll look up the link.

ETA I see someone else dropped the link here. Good.
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amother




Seablue
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 6:33 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks, they were born in Israel. Sad


If they were born in Israel, how are they not Israeli citizens?

Reading between the lines, this sounds like a complicated situation and his best bet is a lawyer
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amother




Bluebonnet
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 9:56 am
Maybe this is a wake up call for a father who felt it was good enough to see his children 3 times a year. He left his family in a different country willingly, children who need a father. I bet the mother isn’t super interested in bending over backwards to help a man see his children when he never seemed all that concerned before.

I’m sure your brother made the right choice for himself and his parnassah and shidduch prospects, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t leave behind other people that didn’t necessarily suffer from those consequences. I hope he gets in.
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 10:03 am
amother [ Bluebonnet ] wrote:
Maybe this is a wake up call for a father who felt it was good enough to see his children 3 times a year. He left his family in a different country willingly, children who need a father. I bet the mother isn’t super interested in bending over backwards to help a man see his children when he never seemed all that concerned before.

I’m sure your brother made the right choice for himself and his parnassah and shidduch prospects, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t leave behind other people that didn’t necessarily suffer from those consequences. I hope he gets in.

If he has to pay child support and can’t, if he stayed in Israel and didn’t make enough, it may be taken from his account and other fun stuff. He could probably afford the child support from work in the US. He could also visit for a couple a few times a year. He’s not the only one.
It’s a bit mean to second guess his decisions.
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WhatFor




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 10:17 am
amother [ Seablue ] wrote:
If they were born in Israel, how are they not Israeli citizens?

Reading between the lines, this sounds like a complicated situation and his best bet is a lawyer


As I understand it, Israel doesn't have citizenship through jus soli - right to citizenship by birthplace. Most places outside of North and South America go by jus sanguinis - derived through parents' citizenship. I agree that this is something for an Israeli family lawyer.
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amother




Crocus
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 10:36 am
Iymnok wrote:
If he has to pay child support and can’t, if he stayed in Israel and didn’t make enough, it may be taken from his account and other fun stuff. He could probably afford the child support from work in the US. He could also visit for a couple a few times a year. He’s not the only one.
It’s a bit mean to second guess his decisions.


It’s a good question we wouldn’t think much of a mother who only sees her children a few times a year.
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amother




SandyBrown
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 10:43 am
Do the children have passports? To get a US passport you must first file for a CRBA (consular report of birth abroad) which is equivalent to a birth certificate. He can try get copies of these.
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WhatFor




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 10:46 am
amother [ SandyBrown ] wrote:
Do the children have passports? To get a US passport you must first file for a CRBA (consular report of birth abroad) which is equivalent to a birth certificate. He can try get copies of these.


Not sure how that would help him. To get a CRBA he'd still need their Israeli birth certificates which seems to be part of the hold-up here. He needs someone in Israel to get the birth certificates for him (assuming the children's birth certificates are necessary for him to be permitted to visit Israel).
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amother




Bluebonnet
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 11:26 am
amother [ Crocus ] wrote:
It’s a good question we wouldn’t think much of a mother who only sees her children a few times a year.


A thread about a mother shopping who puts her baby on the floor, a thread goes on for 16 pages about a woman who dares ask her older daughter for babysitting help, there’s constant judgement against mothers. But a dad who moved out of the country his children live in for better prospects elsewhere? The tiptoeing in this thread to avoid hurting his feelings is wild.

If this father wanted a real relationship with his children, he should live in the same country as they do.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 11:32 am
WhatFor wrote:
As I understand it, Israel doesn't have citizenship through jus soli - right to citizenship by birthplace. Most places outside of North and South America go by jus sanguinis - derived through parents' citizenship. I agree that this is something for an Israeli family lawyer.
How otherwise is a child born in israel a citizen? I think it is automatic. I know ehen my daughter was birn, I didnt do anything to make her a citizen. She automatically got a teudat zehut because parent(s) was israeli.
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 12:10 pm
amother [ Crocus ] wrote:
It’s a good question we wouldn’t think much of a mother who only sees her children a few times a year.

I certainly would.
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juggling




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 2:13 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
How otherwise is a child born in israel a citizen? I think it is automatic. I know ehen my daughter was birn, I didnt do anything to make her a citizen. She automatically got a teudat zehut because parent(s) was israeli.

She said the kids get citizenship if their parents are citizens which, in this case, they weren't.
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amother




Scarlet
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 3:28 pm
Can we stop judging this father when we know nothing about him and his reasons for moving away. For all you know, it might be medical.

Or he got himself a well paying job which helps him support his children to live a comfortable life.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 3:30 pm
juggling wrote:
She said the kids get citizenship if their parents are citizens which, in this case, they weren't.
Oops, I missed that.
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amother




SandyBrown
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 3:45 pm
WhatFor wrote:
Not sure how that would help him. To get a CRBA he'd still need their Israeli birth certificates which seems to be part of the hold-up here. He needs someone in Israel to get the birth certificates for him (assuming the children's birth certificates are necessary for him to be permitted to visit Israel).


If they have passports that means they have already filed the crba he can now request that from a US office.
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