Do u discourage the use of “never” “always”

amother

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 10:10 am

I have a DD whos very black and white. If I tell her no her automatic reaction is “you never let xyz”
“You always so no” happens not to be true at all. I’m very flexible and easy with her. I see a lot of DH in her and she’s gonna make an amazing adult but she’s a bit of an intense child. Wondering what it’ll look like if I tell her to stop using those phrases ..

Zehava

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 10:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hi Zahava. Sorry I wasn’t clear in my OP. I’m very much not police like. I would explain to her that it’s not true and I don’t think it’s beneficial to say that every time she’s upset ...

This is how she feels in that moment. Whatever she’s feeling is so all-encompassing that it’s really always or never in that moment. Young Kids don’t have the brain capacity that we do. If you tell her to not say XYZ when she’s upset you are limiting communication and sending the message that she can’t tell you how she feels.

amother

DarkRed

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 10:42 am

Zehava wrote:

I don’t agree. We don’t give kids enough credit and I think assuming they aren’t capable and treating them as such causes them to never have confidence.

I think it’s helpful to help the child put things into perspective. It’s a great tool for life. Taking a step back and breaking down our overwhelming thoughts and realizing we are blowing things out of proportion. I see no reason not to start at a young age. If anything just leaving our kids to figure out everything themselves with zero guidance will probably cause more issues down the line.

behappy2

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 11:09 am

Sometimes I use humor. "I know I'm the worst Mommy ever. I never let anything. Right". In a half joking half serious way. Helps them not take themselves so seriously. Sometimes they can feel like you are making fun of them though and not taking them seriously.

Another thing like someone said, "really, I never?" Some times though it makes them dig their heels in deeper

Another thing. I parse it out. Let me hear. This time I'm saying no. Lots of times I said yes. Remember when you wanted this and I said yes. This helps them focus and slowly learn to be more positive.

For every kid and every parent (and every mood) a different way works best.

My kid was like this and BH me consistently helping him see the whole picture changed things. I used to do a lot of validation and it made this issue worse.

amother

NeonPurple

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 11:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I discourage black and white thinking patterns but I don't censor my kids' words unless they're nasty towards another person.
Black and white thinking is part of being a child, and with maturity comes the grey. I would help them along though because life is much harder for preteens and teens who are stuck in black and white.

amother

SandyBrown

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 11:16 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

A child saying "you never let..." or "you always say no" is typical child age appropriate behavior. I don't make a big deal out of it, but I sometimes do say something like "Remember yesterday I did let? Yesterday is was appropriate/the right time to do whatever but now isn't the right time." But I usually don't engage and let them feel their feelings and try to commiserate with them.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 11:20 am

amother [ NeonPurple ] wrote:

Totally agree, unless you think your child might be neurologically inclined to get "stuck" in black and white thinking. Then doing fun exercises in more flexible thought is a good idea, especially if you start young in the very early stages.

When DD was little, she was extremely black and white, to the point where I had been going from doctor to doctor trying to find out how to help her.

When she was little, she had a lot of anxiety (still does), and wanted me to "Promise always". I explained to her about bli neder, and how Jews don't make promises or say "always or never". If I made a promise, and then a tree fell on me and I couldn't do the promise, DD might think that I was a liar, right? I promised, and couldn't do it. If I promised that she would never have to get a vaccine, and then a vaccine came out that would save her life, and she would die if she didn't get it - should I break my promise? Does that make mommy a liar?

I want her to trust me that I will do my very best, I will try, and that I want to fulfil what she wants, if it's the right thing for her.

Examples like that really help a lot, especially if you sprinkle them in every time something comes up. I didn't tell her it was a bad way of thinking, I just told her it wasn't a Jewish way of thinking, because we don't like to say things that we can't control. Only Hashem knows what will happen next.

(Slightly off topic: This is why I get really uncomfortable when I see ads in frum magazines that say "This gadol promises that if you donate to this cause, you will never get sick or have any financial trouble, ever." It just seems so anti Torah to me.)

amother

Anemone

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 1:50 pm

Zehava wrote:

This isn’t true. We can teach our child about Growth Mindset (Carol Dweck). When we change our words, we change our mindset.

It isn’t teaching a child to limit expression or suppress feelings. It’s simply changing the way we express ourself, and in turn will change the way we think.

For example, instead of saying “I can’t do it,” the child should learn to say “it’s so hard for me. I need some help.” You can argue that the kid reallyyyy feels she can’t do it…but that’s wrong. If you accept the way a child speaks when they have a Fixed Mindset it will definitely not help them in life.

saw50st8

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 1:50 pm

amother [ DarkRed ] wrote:

I agree.

I also encourage my kids to look at actual facts.

"You never let me go."

"Ok, let's talk about that. What about last Thursday? And two weeks before?" etc.

Kids don't necessarily like facts that show them their perspective is not accurate, but it can be helpful for focusing the conversation.

Zehava

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 1:54 pm

amother [ Anemone ] wrote:

You can reflect and rephrase. If a child tells you “I can’t do it” you can reflect by saying “hmmm I see this may be really hard to you and feel like it’s impossible. Maybe you need some help”. But that’s not the same as controlling the way they express themselves. I think that’s condescending and not something you’d ever think of doing to an adult. It also makes the child think before talking if they’re expressing themselves the right or wrong way. Ultimately they’ll find someone else who listens to them without corrections.

amother

Anemone

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 2:18 pm

Zehava wrote:

Teaching your child a healthier and more effective way of communicating is the farthest thing from controlling the way they express themselves.

I hope the way you talk to your child isn’t the same way you talk to an adult. That could breach boundaries in many ways.

There’s nothing wrong with a child thinking before she speaks to see if she can express herself the right way. That would actually be the healthier way.

And we’re not correcting the way they speak. We are teaching them (in a calm moment. Not on the spot) that when we use certain words we come to believe it. So if we always say “I’m so bad at this,” then it will be true. But if we learn to say more like “I’m not good at this yet. I need more practice,” we’ve taught our child to have a healthier way of thinking and feeling.

It is in no way controlling their expression or pushing them away to find ppl who they can be negative to.
Sorry

amother

Anemone

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 2:19 pm

Zehava wrote:

Also, do you want to do this every time your child expresses a negative feeling? That would seriously be tiring. It would be a lot more productive to encourage positive talk than have to reflect and rephrase every time they make a statement.

Zehava

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 2:24 pm

amother [ Anemone ] wrote:

I give my child the same basic human decency and respect that I would afford an adult. So if I wouldn’t correct the way an adult chooses to vent to me I wouldn’t do that to my child either. My children can feel safe to use any words they choose to express how they feel, without their word usage or the content being judged and corrected.
I don’t view my children as defective items in need of constant fixing. I don’t think I know better than them how they feel or how to express those feelings.
I think all human beings deserve to have a safe space where we can be, and express ourselves freely without looking over our shoulder. As parents that is the greatest gift we can give our kids, and ultimately ourselves. Judgement kills connections and connection is the greatest tool we have when it comes to raising our children.
I challenge you to continue venting and expressing your feelings to a mentor, friend, or therapist who is constantly correcting your words.

Zehava

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 2:26 pm

amother [ Anemone ] wrote:

It’s tiring to be an empathetic parent sometimes. Ofcourse it can be tempting to just try to fix our kid and move on. But that is not the job of a parent. Our job as a parent is to provide the optimal environment for inner growth. Not to force that growth upon a child.

amother

Anemone

Fri, Sep 10 2021, 2:43 pm

Zehava wrote:

You have an opinion that you’re trying very hard to push. I get what you’re saying, but we’re not talking about judgement here. We are talking about encouraging our children to have a growth mindset, and we do so by teaching them a new way to speak.

We’re not telling them we know better than them how they feel. We are simply giving them tools to make their lives a more positive one. And this isn’t because they are defective and we need to fix them, but rather giving them tools to live a happier life.

And I suggest doing this NOT as a response to negative expression, but regather at a calm moment.

Also, let’s talk about what you keep mentioning about speaking to adults. Are you the mother of these adults you’re referring to? I think not. Your position is different. We don’t toilet train our adult friends, but we do our kids. We don’t put adults to sleep, but we do our kids. We don’t remind adults about bedtime, but we do to our kids.

Comparing the way we parent our children and speaking to adults is so odd to me. I agree they both deserve respect, but we definitely don’t relate to them in the exact same way.