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So angry, can't forgive this year. Chizuk?
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:01 am
I am very very angry. I should be in therapy and maybe on medication, but I'm not. Point is, there is no way I can forgive this year.

I know some Holocaust survivors forgave the Nazis, but I understand it usually took years and years, not the first RH/YK of freedom, or while they were in the camps.

So if I can't forgive, is there any chizuk of what else I could do to have a meaningful holiday?

I was going to pray davka that Gd punish those who harmed me, perhaps if I just try not to think of those who harmed me or the harm done, that would be enough?


*** I don't want to talk about who hurt me or how, that would open a huge can of worms and isn't the point right now ***
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amother




Dill
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:08 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am very very angry. I should be in therapy and maybe on medication, but I'm not. Point is, there is no way I can forgive this year.

I know some Holocaust survivors forgave the Nazis, but I understand it usually took years and years, not the first RH/YK of freedom, or while they were in the camps.

So if I can't forgive, is there any chizuk of what else I could do to have a meaningful holiday?

I was going to pray davka that Gd punish those who harmed me, perhaps if I just try not to think of those who harmed me or the harm done, that would be enough?


*** I don't want to talk about who hurt me or how, that would open a huge can of worms and isn't the point right now ***


I felt the same way for a long time. I davened for the people supporting my abuser die. I davened that he would die. Begged Hashem. Came up with cruel plans to harm him and his family who supported him.

When the saga was over, those crazy intense angry feeling dissipated.

I wish you healing, but first I wish you freedom from whatever is plaguing you
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amother




Daffodil
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:13 am
I’m no rabbi, so don’t quote me in this, but my therapist said to tell the person that they did such-and-such and what they did had a big effect on you. And that you are very angry about it. And that they need to ask you mechila blev shalem. If they asked, Would that help you have forgiving feelings toward them?
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:23 am
amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:
I’m no rabbi, so don’t quote me in this, but my therapist said to tell the person that they did such-and-such and what they did had a big effect on you. And that you are very angry about it. And that they need to ask you mechila blev shalem. If they asked, Would that help you have forgiving feelings toward them?


No because it is not one person it is a large group of people. This isn't it -- but let's just say my anger was at the people who caused 9-11. I don't know who most of them are, and most of them probably think they actually did the right thing.
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:25 am
The first RH/YK after a thing is intense. My ex walked out on me the month before, in August. Everyone I expressed this concern about not being able to forgive reassured me that it's ok and I don't have to. I'm not obligated to forgive when everything is still raw.

Wanting God to punish the person can be a bit extreme, if you have a specific punishment in mind. However, it could be totally appropriate. I maybe would tweak it a little, maybe ask God to give out the appropriate justice in this case, whatever that is. Justice and not punishment. Mainly bc, if you ask for something specific and it doesn't happen, or doesn't happen publicly, you don't want to feel betrayed by God. But if you ask God to exact His judgement on the perpetrator, even if it's something you don't see, hopefully it can set your mind at ease knowing God has your back.

You can also daven that God helps you work through the anger in a positive way. That if you feel you should be in therapy or on meds, that God will help you find the right shaliach quickly and that finances will not be a problem. Ask that God soften your heart and for Him to help you let go of your anger. Ask God to help you find meaning in the thing and the after effects.

I hope these words are helpful and not hurtful and if they are hurtful I hope you can forgive me for causing pain on top of pain.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:29 am
singleagain wrote:
The first RH/YK after a thing is intense. My ex walked out on me the month before, in August. Everyone I expressed this concern about not being able to forgive reassured me that it's ok and I don't have to. I'm not obligated to forgive when everything is still raw.

Wanting God to punish the person can be a bit extreme, if you have a specific punishment in mind. However, it could be totally appropriate. I maybe would tweak it a little, maybe ask God to give out the appropriate justice in this case, whatever that is. Justice and not punishment. Mainly bc, if you ask for something specific and it doesn't happen, or doesn't happen publicly, you don't want to feel betrayed by God. But if you ask God to exact His judgement on the perpetrator, even if it's something you don't see, hopefully it can set your mind at ease knowing God has your back.

You can also daven that God helps you work through the anger in a positive way. That if you feel you should be in therapy or on meds, that God will help you find the right shaliach quickly and that finances will not be a problem. Ask that God soften your heart and for Him to help you let go of your anger. Ask God to help you find meaning in the thing and the after effects.

I hope these words are helpful and not hurtful and if they are hurtful I hope you can forgive me for causing pain on top of pain.


Thank you! Actually very helpful
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:35 am
I'm really angry at someone and I don't forgive her for what she has done to me and my parents and my brother and the whole family. Really, I think I don't forgive her ever also some other people I find hard to forgive. Those people bring out the worst in me and that is not good for me and not for them. The tool is, the art if you say... Is to close the chapter of this person and don't lower yourself. Don't speak loshon horo, don't scolded them or do publically mean... That is a test for me.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 9:43 am
It's a very serious thong to ask Hashem to punish someone.

I don't think anyone needs to forgive the Nazis teach shemam!

In order to forgive you first need to feel angry. If its a closed can of worms at the moment, then forgiveness is forced and won't work. You first need to feel angry, hurt, accept and then you can forgive. You can't jump to step 4.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:36 am
behappy2 wrote:
It's a very serious thong to ask Hashem to punish someone.

I don't think anyone needs to forgive the Nazis teach shemam!

In order to forgive you first need to feel angry. If its a closed can of worms at the moment, then forgiveness is forced and won't work. You first need to feel angry, hurt, accept and then you can forgive. You can't jump to step 4.


I definitely feel angry. Waaay to much. It is very intense and almost every day, sometimes for hours. I feel hurt, though it is a lot less intense than the anger and I don't feel like the "hurt" feelings are out of control like the anger is. Occasionally I will have brief periods of time where I feel acceptance, but then it goes away 😒
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:40 am
Chickensoupprof wrote:
I'm really angry at someone and I don't forgive her for what she has done to me and my parents and my brother and the whole family. Really, I think I don't forgive her ever also some other people I find hard to forgive. Those people bring out the worst in me and that is not good for me and not for them. The tool is, the art if you say... Is to close the chapter of this person and don't lower yourself. Don't speak loshon horo, don't scolded them or do publically mean... That is a test for me.


Halachically I am not sure about the loshon hara in my case. Let's just say again that I am angry at the terrorists who caused the 9-11 tragedy. There would be some use of me speaking about how much harm they caused and what horrible people they(the terrorists) are, right? That we shouldn't forget. Or not?
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:44 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Halachically I am not sure about the loshon hara in my case. Let's just say again that I am angry at the terrorists who caused the 9-11 tragedy. There would be some use of me speaking about how much harm they caused and what horrible people they(the terrorists) are, right? That we shouldn't forget. Or not?


I don't think we have to forgive terrorists and Nazis. If anything we daven for Hashem to do away with our enemies.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:45 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Halachically I am not sure about the loshon hara in my case. Let's just say again that I am angry at the terrorists who caused the 9-11 tragedy. There would be some use of me speaking about how much harm they caused and what horrible people they(the terrorists) are, right? That we shouldn't forget. Or not?


I guess that what works for me is hoping that Hashem looks favorably at me, even if there are some people who don't look favorably at me.
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amother




Sand
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:48 am
Someone very much wronged me. It was a big deal and part of a bigger deal.

I decided one YK to just be silent on that individual in my tefillos. Just for that one day.

I didn't daven for them---good or the opposite. I just stayed silent. That's what I could achieve.

TBH That's still all I can achieve re: that person, even though it's been a couple years. In the meantime, my feelings are much less intense. I think that this YK that being silent is still what I can achieve--and I try to do that more of the year with this person, but again it's been some time and the feelings aren't as intense.
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:50 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don't know who most of them are, and most of them probably think they actually did the right thing.


I always wondered about this. If a person did what's right for them (such as set boundaries) but the other person is very very hurt, do they need forgiveness?
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:54 am
Forgiveness isn't easy, but it helps for our own peace of mind. We burning up in anger doesn't affect them and we end up just hurting ourselves.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:55 am
Simple1 wrote:
I always wondered about this. If a person did what's right for them (such as set boundaries) but the other person is very very hurt, do they need forgiveness?


You raise a totally different question.

Mine is like the 9-11 terrorists thinking it was right to kill innocent people because that's what the Taliban told them Allah wanted.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 10:59 am
Simple1 wrote:
Forgiveness isn't easy, but it helps for our own peace of mind. We burning up in anger doesn't affect them and we end up just hurting ourselves.


I understand this intellectually, but emotionally I feel like my anger is a fire burning out of my control and knowing that it doesn't affect the bad guys and harms me and my loved ones just adds despair on top of the anger.

This is probably where therapy and maybe medication would come in. BTW there is very low cost therapy available in my location but there is a long wait list to get in.
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queen esther




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 11:06 am
singleagain wrote:
The first RH/YK after a thing is intense. My ex walked out on me the month before, in August. Everyone I expressed this concern about not being able to forgive reassured me that it's ok and I don't have to. I'm not obligated to forgive when everything is still raw.

Wanting God to punish the person can be a bit extreme, if you have a specific punishment in mind. However, it could be totally appropriate. I maybe would tweak it a little, maybe ask God to give out the appropriate justice in this case, whatever that is. Justice and not punishment. Mainly bc, if you ask for something specific and it doesn't happen, or doesn't happen publicly, you don't want to feel betrayed by God. But if you ask God to exact His judgement on the perpetrator, even if it's something you don't see, hopefully it can set your mind at ease knowing God has your back.

You can also daven that God helps you work through the anger in a positive way. That if you feel you should be in therapy or on meds, that God will help you find the right shaliach quickly and that finances will not be a problem. Ask that God soften your heart and for Him to help you let go of your anger. Ask God to help you find meaning in the thing and the after effects.

I hope these words are helpful and not hurtful and if they are hurtful I hope you can forgive me for causing pain on top of pain.


I was going to say something like this. This post is written so beautifully that I don't think there's anything to add!
I'm sorry for your pain.
I would think if it was me with the example you gave, it would be good to focus on asking for the healing and growth for you and justice for anyone who did wrong. Trying to just "hand over" the anger to Hashem in this case and leave it to His judgement, not trying to change how you feel.
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Laiya




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 11:16 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand this intellectually, but emotionally I feel like my anger is a fire burning out of my control and knowing that it doesn't affect the bad guys and harms me and my loved ones just adds despair on top of the anger.

This is probably where therapy and maybe medication would come in. BTW there is very low cost therapy available in my location but there is a long wait list to get in.


OP, here's an exercise that's supposed to help lessen the intensity of your anger and pain when someone wronged you. Write a letter to the person (you aren't going to send it). Let them know exactly how they wronged you and the effect their behavior has had on your life. Don't hold back anything.

Next is the important part. You will write a response letter from this person to yourself. Include everything you wish the person would respond, what their ideal apology would say.

Then, tear up both letters.

Btw, it's important to actually handwrite the letters, not type them.

Wishing you peace.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 12:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am very very angry. I should be in therapy and maybe on medication, but I'm not. Point is, there is no way I can forgive this year.

I know some Holocaust survivors forgave the Nazis, but I understand it usually took years and years, not the first RH/YK of freedom, or while they were in the camps.

So if I can't forgive, is there any chizuk of what else I could do to have a meaningful holiday?

I was going to pray davka that Gd punish those who harmed me, perhaps if I just try not to think of those who harmed me or the harm done, that would be enough?


*** I don't want to talk about who hurt me or how, that would open a huge can of worms and isn't the point right now ***


First of all when the chofetz chaim rights about mechila the lashon is רוצה you should be the kind of person who WANTS to be mochel. There is zero halachic obligation to be mochel if the didn't ask for mechila, and even if they did hkb"h understands its a process. Like anything else in judisim as long as you are on the path of forgivness and healing you are doing what hashem wants from you.

For yourself remember that when you hold on to pain and anger you are letting them to rent space in your head and heart rent free. In essence you are allowing them to continue hurting you.
If you work on letting it go do it for yourself. PLEASE start therapy and meds if that is what you need. It is so worth it.
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