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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Rosh Hashana-Yom Kippur
So angry, can't forgive this year. Chizuk?
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 11:19 pm
singleagain wrote:
OP, I'm concerned about the way you explain your anger so strong and violent after twenty years. Usually these things ease with time. You don't have to answer anything here. But was there something more personal? Did you lose someone that day? Of course, that pain is hard to fathom and even harder to deal with because there was so much loss. And maybe your personal loss was never acknowledged. Even if you didn't have a personal person you lost, did you have a different type of loss... Innocence or security? Finding a way to deal with those emotions is crucial to healing.

Even if the wait for therapy is long, put yourself on the list. Then look for grief groups, and support communities online. Maybe there are messages boards like this where people are discussing the event. Reddit or Facebook even. This is one time when internet is a good tool.


It wasn't 20 years ago, just a bit over 1 year. I am not actually angry over the 9-11 terrorist attacks, just giving that as an example because I don't want to make this too post too personal with the actual details because that would be opening myself up too much to anonymous women (actually I've done that before posting about how my mother abused me and had people tell me "oh, that was nothing", etc, unhelpful)
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 11:23 pm
pinkpeonies wrote:
al-quaida, not the taliban...
can I ask? did this group of people do something specifically to you? or something you dont approve of?


The perpetrators did not know my name and specifically target me, but I was personally affected, not just watching from my tv and getting upset. Let's say I was in the Trade Towers at the time but (obviously) was injured but not killed.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Sep 12 2021, 11:27 pm
Simple1 wrote:
Sorry maybe I didn't understand your post, but are you angry at the 9/11 terrorists? if so, you do not need to forgive. More helpful would be working on Emunah - not so easy at all, but maybe you can read or watch small clips daily. Or maybe a trauma therapist since you seem very affected.


Not actually 9-11, I was just giving that as an example, because I don't want to get too personal.

Sometimes on this website if you say "I'm super upset over the Oklahoma City Bombings" someone will say "But that's not even close to 9-11, just get over it and forgive!"
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 12:28 am
Why not pray for the ability to forgive?
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amother
Mayflower


 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 12:37 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
First of all when the chofetz chaim rights about mechila the lashon is רוצה you should be the kind of person who WANTS to be mochel. There is zero halachic obligation to be mochel if the didn't ask for mechila, and even if they did hkb"h understands its a process. Like anything else in judisim as long as you are on the path of forgivness and healing you are doing what hashem wants from you.

For yourself remember that when you hold on to pain and anger you are letting them to rent space in your head and heart rent free. In essence you are allowing them to continue hurting you.
If you work on letting it go do it for yourself. PLEASE start therapy and meds if that is what you need. It is so worth it.



Came here to say THIS. Random forgiveness is Christian, not Jewish. You forgive if a person wants to be forgiven. To reiterate the point above, the issue here is you holding on to your anger

Here's what I've learned: holding on to rage and grudges literally enmeshes you with the abusers from whom you are trying to cut ties. Letting go sets you free.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 2:09 am
amother [ Mayflower ] wrote:
Came here to say THIS. Random forgiveness is Christian, not Jewish. You forgive if a person wants to be forgiven. To reiterate the point above, the issue here is you holding on to your anger

Here's what I've learned: holding on to rage and grudges literally enmeshes you with the abusers from whom you are trying to cut ties. Letting go sets you free.


Thank you. I actually did not know this and thought we were supposed to forgive everyone.

I have forgiven everyone who ever apologized to me. Two people IRL did, and I was able to forgive them and actually respect them for asking forgiveness. Those were completely different events than the one I am currently angry about though.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 3:25 am
If you feel comfortable, it might help to speak to a rav. If you don't want to do so personally, because you don't want to be so vulnerable, there are online places to ask such questions.

I think you'll find more support for the idea that you are not obligated to forgive human monsters.

Most of the time, what lies below anger is pain. Maybe you can use YK as an opportunity to address some of that pain. Several people suggested writing a letter. I might add that you can write a letter to HKBH, and bring it to shul or to any davening at home, and "read it to Hashem" during a quiet moment and in a private or safe space. Maybe after reading through Eileh Ezk'ra. (I believe the reason we go into gory details there is to let those suffering as you are know that their feelings are legitimate, and appropriate to express.) Let yourself cry and simmer. Open that pain and anger to your Creator and ask for help in handling it during the coming year.

I'm sorry for the cruelty and devastation that led you to this place. And for the additional pain caused by any who minimized your feelings -- if there's any chance I was one of them here, please forgive me. May this year bring some measure of justice.
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amother
Yarrow


 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 3:45 am
You said you need therapy and maybe meds.

Thats what you should do.
But please do, and asap. ask a trusted friend/ rav/ doctor for good names and book an appointment, now. (or tell us where you are, we can make suggestions)

Forget about the Mechila part

for now, your health is a priority.

Health comes before religous mechilos. Hashem wants us healthy first.

approved by my friend who is a therapist. (frum, of course)

Going thru trauma can upset internal balance. Be good to yourself, get the care and the support you deserve!

We are here for you
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pinkpeonies




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 4:59 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The perpetrators did not know my name and specifically target me, but I was personally affected, not just watching from my tv and getting upset. Let's say I was in the Trade Towers at the time but (obviously) was injured but not killed.


Ok, I hear. Forgive me if im wrong, but are you upset at people who you believe made the wrong decisions in terms of Covid safety and therefore you or someone close to you became sick?
If this is so, this level of anger is very very extreme. In this case, I would tell you to learn shaar habitachon with someone you respect. If I am wrong in my assumption, I am so sorry
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 5:27 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
It wasn't 20 years ago, just a bit over 1 year. I am not actually angry over the 9-11 terrorist attacks, just giving that as an example because I don't want to make this too post too personal with the actual details because that would be opening myself up too much to anonymous women (actually I've done that before posting about how my mother abused me and had people tell me "oh, that was nothing", etc, unhelpful)


I apologize for my confusion. At first you said you weren't going to explain. But then when 9/11 was brought in I didn't realize it wasn't just an example.

In that case please ignore my previous post about time.

One year is for sure not enough time. I'm eleven years post divorce and I still get angry at my ex. I don't know if I've ever actually forgiven him bc he never really asked.

I would just reiterate put yourself on a list for therapy if it's what you think you need. And still look for support online. Facebook. Reddit. Etc.

I'm sorry for the invalidating experiences people have expressed. It's absolutely wrong. People who drown in seven feet of water are just as dead as people who drown in twenty feet of water. Comparing tragedy and saying you don't have it worse it wrong.

I'm so sorry. If you want to contact me privately either through pm or my email jerseysingleagain@gmail.com I promise I will not tell you it's not valid.

What you are feeling is always valid. And you are not obligated to forgive just bc it's Yom kippur.

It doesn't matter how close you are to actually tragedy, you can still suffer aftershocks. Why do you think people go into mourning when a celebrity dies, bc it causes a loss on their personal world. I still get sad about Robin Williams. Especially when I read about people's encounters with him, he seemed like such a wholesome awesome person and I am sad that he is no longer in this/my world

OP I really hope you find peace. If there's anything I can do please let me know.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:47 am
pinkpeonies wrote:
Ok, I hear. Forgive me if im wrong, but are you upset at people who you believe made the wrong decisions in terms of Covid safety and therefore you or someone close to you became sick?
If this is so, this level of anger is very very extreme. In this case, I would tell you to learn shaar habitachon with someone you respect. If I am wrong in my assumption, I am so sorry


Not exactly that, but something similar in that it was not **personally** against me, and it was done by a large nameless group, but I was directly harmed. I don't want to give details.

In any case, my anger is very extreme.and I know that, but it doesn't help me control it.
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hardworking mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 10:04 am
amother [ Yarrow ] wrote:
You said you need therapy and maybe meds.

Thats what you should do.
But please do, and asap. ask a trusted friend/ rav/ doctor for good names and book an appointment, now. (or tell us where you are, we can make suggestions)

Forget about the Mechila part

for now, your health is a priority.

Health comes before religous mechilos. Hashem wants us healthy first.

approved by my friend who is a therapist. (frum, of course)

Going thru trauma can upset internal balance. Be good to yourself, get the care and the support you deserve!

We are here for you
again with the meds! you do not need medication just because your mad at someone! why would you? Its a normal thing to get mad this is why so many kids are daiognosed with adhd. "Moishy got mad because yanky took away his toy... Quick pills!
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hardworking mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 10:30 am
No response huh? Just remember if your the one unjustly medicating someone your litarally killing someone and you cant ask that person for forgiveness because you fried their brain
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 11:18 am
hardworking mom wrote:
No response huh? Just remember if your the one unjustly medicating someone your litarally killing someone and you cant ask that person for forgiveness because you fried their brain


One, OP herself said maybe she could use meds

Second, meds don't fry your brain. They heal your brain.
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Kelly43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 1:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am very very angry. I should be in therapy and maybe on medication, but I'm not. Point is, there is no way I can forgive this year.

I know some Holocaust survivors forgave the Nazis, but I understand it usually took years and years, not the first RH/YK of freedom, or while they were in the camps.

So if I can't forgive, is there any chizuk of what else I could do to have a meaningful holiday?

I was going to pray davka that Gd punish those who harmed me, perhaps if I just try not to think of those who harmed me or the harm done, that would be enough?


*** I don't want to talk about who hurt me or how, that would open a huge can of worms and isn't the point right now ***



Ask hashem to help you forgive. Tell him that you can't forgive and you want help. We all believe that there's no way someone should hurt you without the will from hashem. Praying to punish the one who hurt you is not a good idea. It can C,V happen to yourself.. just be honest pray for a happy good year and you should be able to forgive everyone. You will see a big change and it will definitely get easier for you..
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hardworking mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 1:06 pm
singleagain wrote:
One, OP herself said maybe she could use meds

Second, meds don't fry your brain. They heal your brain.
so why dont we all take meds well all have healed brains!
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 1:13 pm
hardworking mom wrote:
so why dont we all take meds well all have healed brains!


If you want to debate medication please start a new thread and I'll talk to you there. Do not derail OP's thread
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amother
Sand


 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 1:14 pm
hardworking mom wrote:
so why dont we all take meds well all have healed brains!


You may be trying to bring levity, but this is really a tone deaf response that sounds like a very antiquated (yet prevalent) view of mental health and the use of medicines with that.
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hardworking mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 3:56 pm
singleagain wrote:
If you want to debate medication please start a new thread and I'll talk to you there. Do not derail OP's thread
im not trying to derail any thread im just wondering why no one said anything about what op said about needing meds. You yourself said meds is to heal sick people so why does op feel like she needs it just because shes mad at someone
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Tue, Sep 14 2021, 3:59 pm
amother [ Sand ] wrote:
You may be trying to bring levity, but this is really a tone deaf response that sounds like a very antiquated (yet prevalent) view of mental health and the use of medicines with that.

No, she has a point. Meds are a legit way to treat mental health conditions, but not all pain is caused by those conditions. Treating emotional pain not caused by those mental health conditions with drugs intended to treat those conditions is kind of like giving Tamiflu for a broken leg and then claiming anyone who doesn't support it doesn't believe physical health is real.
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