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HakarasHatov




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:24 pm
Regarding parenting, what are boundaries for you? Please give some examples. I am seeking to improve this area for our family.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:30 pm
Boundaries are a line that say “up to here is where you can go and I’ll help you” aka rules but with the onus of the parent to make sure they’re kept.
Examples:
Only screentime on weekends
Only snacks after dinner
Coming in from outside at 8
Etc.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:37 pm
It’s also about what you are willing to tolerate yourself and everyone else respecting that . Aka Personal boundaries.
For example, I have a boundary that if my younger child hurts me physically whether it’s just a slight push , or a hard intentional scratch or kick, I immediately get up and lock myself in my room. I verbally say “I do not want to be hurt and if you hurt me I will have to lock myself in my room until I feel safe”.

My three yr old made it clear that her boundary is that she does not want anyone to touch her long beautiful hair. Whenever someone goes to pat her hair or run their fingers through her gorgeous locks I remind them to please not touch her hair , that she doesn’t like it.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:42 pm
Zehava wrote:
Boundaries are a line that say “up to here is where you can go and I’ll help you” aka rules but with the onus of the parent to make sure they’re kept.
Examples:
Only screentime on weekends
Only snacks after dinner
Coming in from outside at 8
Etc.


🤯

And when kids fight back? Is that a demand for “obedience”?

What if the demands are not something a parent can control, like the hurtful words coming out of a child’s mouth?
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tp3




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:53 pm
In regards to parenting, there are boundaries in how we treat each other in our family.
Every person in the family deserves to feel safe and loved and respected.
I don't allow violence of any kind directed at siblings or parents.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 6:59 pm
tp3 wrote:
In regards to parenting, there are boundaries in how we treat each other in our family.
Every person in the family deserves to feel safe and loved and respected.
I don't allow violence of any kind directed at siblings or parents.


What does that mean???????

What do you do, then, that won’t be criticized by some people as “punishment” or “Plan A” or “not taking the [violent] child’s feelings into account”??

What do you do when it’s the thousandth offense?? When you can’t have your child in your sight 24/7??

When even literally being in the room and seeing a fight brewing and proactively trying to step in to encourage/model proper communication is not enough and the kids throw things around or through you to get at one another?????

“I don’t allow”

What DOES THAT MEAN??????


Last edited by bigsis144 on Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HakarasHatov




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:00 pm
It sounds like boundaries is synonymous with rules. Is that correct?
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sequoia




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:04 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
What does that mean???????

What do you do, then, that won’t be criticized by some people as “punishment” or “Plan A” or “not taking the [violent] child’s feelings into account”??



Some people are crazy. Feel free to ignore them.

Some people won’t be the ones dealing with the aftermath if heaven forbid something irrevocable happens. You will.
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amother




Mimosa
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:04 pm
Boundaries is A broad term but creating rules for a purpose to teach the child that you are the adult and they are child. It is crucial for parents to set boundaries/rules to raise healthy children. It can be something as basic as asking for food and not taking on their own (toddler),sleeping in a parent's bed or not giving into every single demand. Children without boundaries may act inappropriate or confused. Boundaries can often come into play in other scenarios. As a teacher parents can't call past a certain time...
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amother




Denim
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:04 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
What does that mean???????

What do you do, then, that won’t be criticized by some people as “punishment” or “Plan A” or “not taking the [violent] child’s feelings into account”??

What do you do when it’s the thousandth offense?? When you can’t have your child in your sight 24/7??

When even literally being in the room and seeing a fight brewing and proactively trying to step in to encourage/model proper communication is not enough and the kids throw things around or through you to get at one another?????

“I don’t allow”

What DOES THAT MEAN??????


You can't really create boundaries with teens. Most are set in their ways already. But you can with young children. The key is setting the stage properly so bad habits are not formed. In extreme cases with really difficult children, you probably need outside help and things that will work for most homes and children won't work for yours. I do believe that there is a solution out there and it's a matter of finding a capable professional that can actually help and not give up on your children.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:05 pm
HakarasHatov wrote:
It sounds like boundaries is synonymous with rules. Is that correct?

Yes. Unlike rules through, they aren’t primarily enforced with reward and punishment.
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amother




Mimosa
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:05 pm
HakarasHatov wrote:
It sounds like boundaries is synonymous with rules. Is that correct?

Yes with a specific intent not to cross the line..
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amother




Vanilla
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:07 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
What does that mean???????

What do you do, then, that won’t be criticized by some people as “punishment” or “Plan A” or “not taking the [violent] child’s feelings into account”??

What do you do when it’s the thousandth offense?? When you can’t have your child in your sight 24/7??

When even literally being in the room and seeing a fight brewing and proactively trying to step in to encourage/model proper communication is not enough and the kids throw things around or through you to get at one another?????

“I don’t allow”

What DOES THAT MEAN??????


In my experience the people who say I don’t allow have never dealt with an extremely difficult child. (usually pandas aka autoimmune encephalitis)
Cool cool you don’t allow. Now what.
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amother




Mimosa
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:07 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
You can't really create boundaries with teens. Most are set in their ways already. But you can with young children. The key is setting the stage properly so bad habits are not formed. In extreme cases with really difficult children, you probably need outside help and things that will work for most homes and children won't work for yours. I do believe that there is a solution out there and it's a matter of finding a capable professional that can actually help and not give up on your children.


Your pretty much saying teens can do whatever they want...Of course you can!! It's actually when it's very appropriate but yes it's easier when they are young.
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amother




Denim
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:09 pm
amother [ Mimosa ] wrote:
Your pretty much saying teens can do whatever they want...Of course you can!! It's actually when it's very appropriate but yes it's easier when they are young.


That's not what I'm saying at all. Of course you can but not in the way that's being discussed here. And I was addressing a specific situation that I feel needs outside help.
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HakarasHatov




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:13 pm
Zehava wrote:
Yes. Unlike rules through, they aren’t primarily enforced with reward and punishment.


So how are boundaries enforced instead.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:23 pm
Zehava wrote:
Yes. Unlike rules through, they aren’t primarily enforced with reward and punishment.


(deep breath, I think I’m less fight-or-flight now. I’ll step away again if I get triggered)

Okay, so how’s this:

A boundary is a parental expectation, or a finish line that they commit to helping their child reach?

If it’s important enough, they will never let it slide. The parent must take ownership for helping the child reach that milestone.

So, stating an expectation in a positive way: I expect DC11 to stay in a room peacefully with DC8 for 30 minutes”.

It is now the parent’s job to:
1) communicate this expectation to the kids, (because you can’t live up to an expectation you don’t even know about. To retroactively inform them means they will only know when they are doing it wrong)

2) communicate with both kids about any trouble they would have upholding this expectation, and try to help them deal with any triggers that would prevent them from living up to it (maybe they can’t be left to their own devices, but if each had an agreed-upon place to sit and a book to read, they could uphold this expectation)

3) if the kids can’t do that, decide if the boundary needs revision, or if you just shouldn’t put kids into a situation that they don’t have the skills to live up to.


To get away from sensitive parenting examples:
Boundary = “my child must be water-safe”.

* If a kid can’t swim, teach them.
* If they have trouble learning, figure out how to make swimming lessons appealing (and that may vary from kid to kid - for one kid, it’s goggles to keep the chlorine from stinging their eyes, while for another it’s lessons in a heated pool, or lessons together with a buddy).
* If that doesn’t work, you’ll have to keep them away from water.

You didn’t change the expectation/boundary to be safe around water, but you took the child’s needs and skills into account.


Last edited by bigsis144 on Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:30 pm; edited 3 times in total
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:25 pm
I cut and pasted this from an article I found on the topic:

In healthy families, members mutually respect and support one another. There is a general sense of compassion and love. Even when a conflict arises, the family has resolution skills for dealing with it maturely and productively.
It’s no secret that family systems can be stressful and complicated. If you’re constantly feeling overwhelmed, it’s time to consider setting boundaries. Boundaries can help reduce some of this emotional intensity. However, implementing them can be easier said than done. Let’s get into what you need to know. 
Understanding the Definition of Boundaries
Just like fences separate physical property, relational boundaries refer to the limits a person has with another person. Your boundaries are your personal guidelines for how you expect other people to treat you.


In a healthy family system, each person assumes responsibility for their part in keeping the system balanced and safe. For example, a parent might set a boundary against unwanted behaviors like cursing, hitting, or stealing. A spouse might request that his partner doesn’t share his private information with outside friends. A mother might ask her daughter to call her when she arrives at her friend’s house.
Healthy boundaries can and should be fluid. This means that they ebb and flow based on each family system, and there isn’t a right-or-wrong way to use them. However, effective boundaries are concise and defined- there isn’t any “guessing” what the other person wants.  
What Are Some Examples of Unhealthy Boundaries?
While issues are inevitable in every family system, some families have chronic, unhealthy boundaries that perpetuate a sense of dysfunction. There are numerous kinds of problematic boundaries, and they aren’t always apparent.
Invading Your Privacy
All people need privacy and personal space. These needs should be understood and respected. Invading your privacy may include:
* Reading through your messages or emails
* Going through your bedroom without knocking
* Persistently asking and probing for personal information
Gaslighting
Gaslighting is a manipulation tactic where someone attempts to make you second-guess yourself.
Gaslighting can occur in any relationship, but it’s common in people with a narcissistic personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder

If someone gaslights you, they may: 
* Deny that they did a certain thing altogether (after being accused of it).
* Attempt to blame you for issues that reflect more than one person in the dynamic.
* Try to convince you that other people don’t like you.
* Tell blatant, outright lies.
* Convince you that you are too emotional. 
* Act incongruently (their words don’t match their actions).
* Accuse you of doing the things they are actually doing. 
* Tell you that everyone else lies to you (and that only they are telling the truth).
Lack of Regard for Your Emotional Well-Being
Even in healthy relationships, people disagree and must rely on a compromise to solve specific problems. However, in dysfunctional dynamics, one person tends to dominate the rest of the system. They appear to have little regard for anyone else’s emotions or thoughts. 
These individuals seem to only have their best interest at heart- even if it’s at the expense of someone else’s safety. Many times, this family member has tremendous authority over everyone else. Others fear upsetting this person, so they will usually give in to their demands just to maintain a sense of peace.
Attempting to Control You
This is often seen in dysfunctional parent-child dynamics, and both parties play a role in the dynamic. On the one hand, the parent makes the executive decisions on behalf of their child. They often assume that the child is inept at critical thinking, and they also worry about what would happen if they didn’t make the right decision. 
Because the child has been accustomed to this pattern their whole life, they often feel helpless without the parent’s guidance. Therefore, they might not even identify this behavior as controlling- instead, it seems like typical parenting.
Often, once the child starts pursuing their own independence, the parent lashes out with extreme anger or resistance. In extreme cases, they might make threats or cut off the child from the family.
Lack of Consistent Boundaries
Children thrive in structured environments. They benefit from having supportive parents who clearly articulate their expectations for them.
For this reason, a lack of boundaries or inconsistent boundaries can be extremely problematic. Children need parents who can teach and guide them. They should not be responsible for making adult decisions before they are ready to do so. Even if they “act maturely,” that does not mean they are capable of taking care of themselves.
Inconsistent boundaries often look like:
* Having no boundaries at all.
* Setting very strict boundaries (often with threats) but failing to implement them.
* Disciplining children harshly without explaining what they did wrong.
* Failing to have a united front (one parent is overly strict and the other is overly lenient).
* Allowing other children to set the boundaries for younger children.
Poor Communication 
In unhealthy family relationships, poor communication is rampant. People often scream over each other. They may act aggressively or passive-aggressively when they don’t get their way. Silent treatment may be common.
Poor communication tends to be passed down from generation to generation. Children often learn how to talk to others by observing their parents. Therefore, if the communication patterns are toxic, they will often perpetuate the vicious cycle.
How to Build Insight Into Identifying Your Boundary Needs 
It’s essential to consider the different boundaries you want to set in your life. While your family may be the focal point, you can start by focusing on all your boundary needs.


Physical Boundaries
What kind of rules do you want to maintain about your physical body and personal space? How much distance do you need between you and another person? What are your rules about relations and intimacy? What kind of affection will you accept or give to others?
Emotional Boundaries
What boundaries do you have related to your thoughts and feelings? Can you separate your feelings from other people’s feelings? Do you blame yourself if someone else is struggling? How do you intend to relate to people if they have beliefs that are vastly different from your own?
Financial Boundaries
What are your guidelines for lending, giving, or donating money to others? Do you plan to jump in and rescue if someone faces a financial hardship? What kind of financial support will you accept yourself?
Moral Boundaries
What are your morals and values, and what happens if someone crosses them? If you intend to address the discrepancy, how do you intend to do that?
Understanding Your Boundary-Related Fears
Identifying your boundaries is one thing. Setting them is an entirely different story. Many people fear boundaries because they worry about hurting the people they love. Additionally, they don’t want to be perceived as mean, punitive, or overly dramatic. 
You may also be afraid of:
* Offending someone you care about deeply.
* Being met with extreme defensiveness or anger.
* Losing the relationship altogether.
* Your own ability to actually set the boundary. 
* Being disrespected regardless of the boundary.
* Being laughed at or ignored.
It’s important to identify which fears resonate the most with you. Eliminating all fear isn’t part of the goal. Setting boundaries may still feel scary, and that’s normal. However, this awareness can help you develop insight into certain patterns. It can also help you identify the steps you need to take

How to Set A Boundary With a Family Member
First, it’s important to reflect on exactly which boundary you want to set. If you have several boundaries in mind, that’s okay. However, it’s important to address only one boundary at a time. 
If you dump a bunch of boundaries on someone simultaneously, it can be overwhelming and confusing. This strategy can also increase the likelihood of the other person feeling attacked. 
Identify Exactly What’s Hurting You 
Most of the time, the need for boundaries comes from a place of disrespect. You must reflect on exactly what’s hurting you in the dynamic. If your first instinct is everything, slow down, and consider the situation.
Do you feel like the other person doesn’t respect your time? Your generosity? Your home?
Do you feel like the other person doesn’t care about your feelings or your spouse or your job?
Try to hone in on the specific details ahead of time. 
Choose A Neutral Time For Your Discussion 
Although it may seem like a great idea to establish your boundaries in the middle of a conflict, this method rarely works. You don’t want to assert your needs when emotions are already heightened. If you do this, you’re more likely to come across as demanding or hostile.
Instead, choose a neutral time and location. If you’ve decided to set a boundary after a contentious argument, wait a few days until your feelings have simmered. Ideally, you want to have a calm and level-headed discussion. 
Speak Using I-Statements 
When people feel frustrated with someone else, they often jump to quick generalizations or accusations about their behavior. They may use extreme language like you always or you never. These kinds of statements tend to make people feel angry and defensive. 
I-statements enable you to share your feelings without making assumptions about other people. They require that you own personal accountability for your own reactions.
The I-statement formula is fairly simple and it follows the format:
I feel ____ when you ___.
Afterward, you can also add an I need ____. This will help reinforce what you expect the boundary to be. 
For example, let’s say your mother continues to disregard your rules when she babysits your child. You might frame your I-statement to say, I feel disrespected when you give Michael candy before dinner. I need him to eat his meal before he has sweets.
Validate the Other Person 
When people feel understood, they are less likely to become combative. Therefore, it’s a good idea to consider how you want to validate your loved one as you set boundaries. Some examples of validation include:
* “I care about you deeply.”
* “I know it wasn’t your intention to hurt me.”
* “I can see how much you care about us.”
* “I know you are going through so much right now.”
* “You are such a wonderful, loving person.”
* “It means so much to me that you are willing to listen to what I have to say.”
* “I appreciate your support.”
Know The Consequences
It’s not enough to just set a boundary without intending to implement it. Ideally, your loved one can respect your needs and make accommodations to compromise. However, this doesn’t always happen, and it’s important to be prepared.
You should identify your consequences ahead of time and outline them to your loved one. Remember that consequences aren’t inherently synonymous with punishment. They are simply there to reinforce your limits.
Boundaries can be as strict as you need them to be. However, they should send a clear message that you are no longer willing to tolerate unwanted behavior. 
Let’s say your mother continues giving your child candy throughout the day, even after you have asked her to stop. A consequence could be prohibiting her from babysitting your child for a week. Or, it could be installing a nanny cam and requiring that she use it when she is unsupervised. 
Consistency is the most important component of setting boundaries. When dynamics have been occurring for many years, you can’t implement a rule one time and expect the other person to comply fully. You may need to continuously remind them of your needs and reinforce the boundaries as needed. 
Many people need to create boundaries with people living with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) or displaying narcissistic traits. Learn more about how to manage narcissistic relationships here.
Final Thoughts
Setting boundaries with family isn’t easy, but learning this skill is crucial to your growth and overall well-being. Just because someone loves you doesn’t mean they have the right to disrespect you. You are allowed to have limits- both physically and emotionally- and it’s important to honor them. 
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tp3




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 7:56 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
What does that mean???????

What do you do, then, that won’t be criticized by some people as “punishment” or “Plan A” or “not taking the [violent] child’s feelings into account”??

What do you do when it’s the thousandth offense?? When you can’t have your child in your sight 24/7??

When even literally being in the room and seeing a fight about to break up and proactively trying to step in to encourage/model proper communication is not enough and the kids throw things around or through you to get at one another?????

“I don’t allow”

What DOES THAT MEAN??????

I didn't mean to post alongside you. I'm sorry that it came out that way.
Our situations are different because our children are different personalities.

But to answer your question, for starters, there is no violent anything in my house. No toy weapons. No videos or books or games which might depict any fighting. I never allowed fighting games. I am extreme, I won't even buy Clue.
I have a bunch of boys, older now. When they started a cops and robbers game, I redirected it in a positive way.
My first two boys fell right in line. My third son- fighting is in his nature. He didn't care to follow my no-violence rules. Nothing I did could change that. For years when he'd get together with friends, he'd return and speak of the uniforms of different armies he studied with them. And then it was their tanks, missiles, and weapons. Every thing he was interested in involved war, armies, weapons, battles. I made an exception for him and allowed him to watch documentaries of world war II battles, which he memorized. (I pre-watched them to make sure they weren't too violent or inappropriate.)
Then he began to be interested in all kinds of karate, judo, krav maga, street fighting, and even wrestling. I thought I'd lose my mind. I allowed self-defense videos and training for him, emphasizing that fighting for defense is fantastic, while looking for fights is not okay ever.
His friends and classmates were going through all these stages together with him. Their recess activity was "play" fighting. During class they'd draw bloody scenes and battles while they half listened to their teacher.
He went to overnight camp and came home begging for an airsoft gun. I didn't even know what that was. I didn't know then but his counselor was encouraging the boys in these things. Target practice, shooting ranges, etc.
My son has a ton of energy, a punching bag is his best friend. When there is no punching bag, he looks for ways to release that energy. Over the years he's tamed down and no longer releases his energy on the people around him. But yes it was an issue that we had to deal with. Keeping him busy and active helped tremendously.
To my major annoyance he'd use his younger brother as a sounding board and teach him all this stuff. Play fighting games with him. Etc. Luckily this is not my next son's nature at all and I knew he'd outgrow it as soon as he gets interested in something else.
I look back to see how much he grew over the years and I'm amazed. I never would have seen the progress if I didn't know what to look for. He has so many special things about him that people who really know him understand he is a treasure. Fighting is part of his nature and there is nothing I can do to change that. I firmly believe in working with a child and not against a child. Every middah can be used either negatively or positively and it is my job to channel it a certain way. I had to majorly adjust my boundaries to accommodate my son's nature. I constantly told him over the years that I am on his side. That I will never be against him. That I will always fight for him, no matter what.
Once in a while when he thinks something is unfair, he mouths off to me in an unpleasant manner. I'm pretty sure the things he says would shock most parents lol. I'm not fazed. He is still growing up and I'm sure this will mellow out as well. I calmly tell him that I expect him to be respectful and to communicate his thoughts in a proper way. I reiterate it as many times as I need to in order for him to see that this boundary cannot be crossed.
In the meantime, keeping him very busy and engaged in active energy-burning activities, keeps him going. When he comes home I tell him how happy I am to see him. I give him a ton of positive attention because I know that some of the restlessness within him comes from a feeling of insecurity deep inside.
One day he may join the IDF and I won't even blink in surprise. It's not the life I dream for him but fighting is in his nature and you cannot change someone's intrinsic nature. If strategizing and using brute force is one of his talents, I can only and will support him in the path he chooses.

I hope that answers your question. We can allow or not allow anything we fancy but our kids surprise us. And that's how it should be. Our kids are our teachers and that's how we grow to become better people.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 13 2021, 8:31 pm
Some boundaries we have are:

Dessert is only Monday night

Bedtimes (try my best to enforce)

We don't physically hurt each other

We wear helmets, buckle up, don't play in the street

I take time for myself in my room when I need

I get dressed in the bathroom even though my 5 year old gets upset that I'm leaving her alone

I don't stay in my kids rooms all night (even though they would like me to!)

I have many more. And many more that I am working on.
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