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Cleaning lady gave me bill of rights demanding $20 per hour
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:31 pm
lkwdlady wrote:
Please don’t give in. The Lakewood cleaning ladies are all on a chat and this past week they decided to present this paper to the people they work for. We are not giving them a raise now as they are already getting paid well and we treat them nicely. I am without help now as many of my neighbors are. They are illegal and can only work for us. They are trying to scare us but it won’t work if we don’t give in. There is no such bill of rights. They created this on their own. Eventually they will come back asking for work because we are sticking together and not letting them demand such a high amount. If you give in it will effect all all of us so please don’t.


The Jews who were principally responsible for organizing workers for the ILGWU and other unions are turning over in their graves to think Jews are organizing to exploit workers.

Workers should be free to negotiate for whatever their market price is.
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number




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:32 pm
The bill of rights thing is bogus. The minimum wage is $12 and they are already being paid market value. They’re trying to intimidate people into paying more.
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number




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:33 pm
Amarante wrote:
The Jews who were principally responsible for organizing workers for the ILGWU and other unions are turning over in their graves to think Jews are organizing to exploit workers.

Workers should be free to negotiate for whatever their market price is.
$20 an hour isn’t market value here. And most people can’t afford to pay it.
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monkeymamma




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:36 pm
Amarante wrote:
The Jews who were principally responsible for organizing workers for the ILGWU and other unions are turning over in their graves to think Jews are organizing to exploit workers.

Workers should be free to negotiate for whatever their market price is.

Seems like the workers are exploiting Jews for more money that they are not entitled to and dont even pay taxes for to begin with. Its sad that its being turned around to make it look like the Jews are the problem when they are not.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:41 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Seems like the workers are exploiting Jews for more money that they are not entitled to and dont even pay taxes for to begin with. Its sad that its being turned around to make it look like the Jews are the problem when they are not.


Why are they not entitled to it? Cleaning ladies are doing the hard work that many of us want to outsource.
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monkeymamma




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:52 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
Why are they not entitled to it? Cleaning ladies are doing the hard work that many of us want to outsource.

Earning more than minimum wage in America is not a right so they are not entitled to it. And they dont pay taxes so technically they are making more than the American citizens who make minimum wage and pay taxes (and yes, work hard). So no, these cleaning ladies are not entitled to get more money even if you wish to outsource the job. You are free to pay them more, you can even pay them $100 if you want but its not their right to get that. Their sense of entitlement is astonishing but some people on imamother would only say that about Jews as they only attack Jews and back every ridiculous demand from non-Jews. The double standards are astonishing Can't Believe It Banging head
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Lets_Eat_Pie




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 4:01 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Earning more than minimum wage in America is not a right so they are not entitled to it. And they dont pay taxes so technically they are making more than the American citizens who make minimum wage and pay taxes (and yes, work hard). So no, these cleaning ladies are not entitled to get more money even if you wish to outsource the job. You are free to pay them more, you can even pay them $100 if you want but its not their right to get that. Their sense of entitlement is astonishing but some people on imamother would only say that about Jews as they only attack Jews and back every ridiculous demand from non-Jews. The double standards are astonishing Can't Believe It Banging head


Asking for a raise does not equal "entitlement." Employees are free to ask for more money, and OP and others in her situation are free to say yes/no/let's negotiate.

Given the contempt in some of these posts directed at cleaning women, no wonder they're trying to organize.
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 4:01 pm
I’d tell her that you can’t afford to pay more than $15 an hour. If she doesn’t back down then send her packing. She’s leaving soon anyways when she gives birth.


When my cleaning lady( don’t have one at the moment but when I do...) comes I work way harder than her. Not every cleaning lady works very hard.
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monkeymamma




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 4:07 pm
Lets_Eat_Pie wrote:
Asking for a raise does not equal "entitlement." Employees are free to ask for more money, and OP and others in her situation are free to say yes/no/let's negotiate.

Given the contempt in some of these posts directed at cleaning women, no wonder they're trying to organize.

My understanding is that the cleaning lady didnt ask for a raise, she demanded a raise which is a sense of entitlement. She can ask nicely and politely instead of bringing documents of some made up bill of rights but she didnt do that and made demands instead. And op feels pressured to give the raise because of this bill of rights that was shoved at her even though op doesnt have to give her anything other than minimum wage (and get her to work legally but seems like the cleaning lady doesnt want that which is entitlement as well). So yes, the cleaning ladies have a sense of entitlement and feel like they can make more than minimum wage, get food and transportation paid and not even pay taxes. Explain why they are above the laws but Jews are somehow the bad ones for not allowing themselves to be exploited.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 4:14 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
Earning more than minimum wage in America is not a right so they are not entitled to it. And they dont pay taxes so technically they are making more than the American citizens who make minimum wage and pay taxes (and yes, work hard). So no, these cleaning ladies are not entitled to get more money even if you wish to outsource the job. You are free to pay them more, you can even pay them $100 if you want but its not their right to get that. Their sense of entitlement is astonishing but some people on imamother would only say that about Jews as they only attack Jews and back every ridiculous demand from non-Jews. The double standards are astonishing Can't Believe It Banging head


I would turn that around and say no one is *entitled* to pay low wages to workers because they don't think the workers deserve it or because the employer can't afford it.

Calling for women to *organize* to keep wages for low paid workers artificially low is repellent to me - especially so considering how much of a positive force Jews were in the movement to organize labor for better working conditions and higher wages.

A worker is worth what someone is willing to pay them - minimum wage is the legal MINIMUM and any worker is entitled to negotiate for as much as someone is willing to pay them.

If the cleaning ladies are asking for unrealistically high wages then the market will determine their value because people won't hire them. Conversely if some people are paying lower wages than others, they will find it difficult to hire people - or will find that they are only able to hire terrible irresponsible workers who aren't able to find work with decent employers - pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

Many places that pay close to minimum wages are finding it difficult to hire people and so wages are going up for fast food restaurant workers for example.

Also inflation is quite high for necessities like food which impact low wage workers most.
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number




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 4:21 pm
monkeymamma wrote:
She can ask nicely and politely instead of bringing documents of some made up bill of rights but she didnt do that and made demands instead.
This, I didn’t see their latest iteration but I saw their “bill of rights” from a few years ago. There’s no legitimacy to it. If they want to form a union then that’s their right but no one needs to give into their demands. They are demanding more than the market can bear. They’re not entitled to it. They already get raises every year.
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schmoois1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 5:25 pm
Thanks all for your responses.
I think what upset me the most was not being asked nicely if she can get a raise (even though she’s being paid market rate) but just giving me some bogus paper saying that there is a $20 per hour minimum which should be paid, which just isn’t true.
Everyone has the right to ask for a raise, and employers can refuse if they want.
But yes, after being treated extremely nicely, getting paid off the books (the going rate, I think) it is ‘entitled’ to ask for such a huge raise in a dishonest manner.
I am sure there are some people who exploit their workers, but in general, I and the people in my community pay and treat the workers well. We’re not trying to exploit anyone. Most people can’t afford to pay so much. Most starting salaries for unskilled workers in other fields aren’t so much. I don’t think people are banding together to stop workers from getting paid appropriately; they’re trying to stop us from being exploited. It can go both ways. Feel free to disagree if you want….
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schmoois1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 5:27 pm
Also, by the way, a raise from $15 to $20 per hour is about a 33% raise. Do you know any other field where you can suddenly demand a 33% raise?
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 5:43 pm
Personally I wouldn’t give a raise to someone who is planning to leave in a few months unless she will come back after her maternity leave. I would think for the amount of hours you are looking for it shouldn’t be so hard to find someone else. Most ladies prefer a full time house than having to drive from place to place every few hours. If you really like her try to negotiate. She is entitled to ask, you are entitled to say no but be prepared she may leave.
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ROFL




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 6:23 pm
I just asked someone for a job by my father in lakewood.
Before he began he started complaining about salary.
I told her no thank you - I don’t want to start with raising salary because they want. I know what I can afford and what I can’t.
Paying someone more than minimum wage and all cash is a good deal. If they don’t want to work for what I offer I say goodbye !
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ven




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 7:00 pm
If your worker asks a raise , you either pay for it or you do not , if you do not, worker will leave , and you will have to find another one. Then another stranger will come up to your house, rinse and repeat. So thzt being said , look carefully into what you can manage, and what not. Sometimes a raise beats the hassel of employing 5 consecutive people who do not fit your needs
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lkwdlady




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Sep 22 2021, 9:02 pm
number wrote:
This, I didn’t see their latest iteration but I saw their “bill of rights” from a few years ago. There’s no legitimacy to it. If they want to form a union then that’s their right but no one needs to give into their demands. They are demanding more than the market can bear. They’re not entitled to it. They already get raises every year.


It’s the exact same paper dated 2013 except for someone whiting out a much lower dollar amount and typing in $20. Because they all have smartphones now and they made a cleaning lady chat, they decided to try for $20. They must think we have endless funds and can easily afford it. Many people are without help now in Lakewood. I believe it’s temporary and they’ll see we won’t pay $20. $15 an hour off the books was even very high in my opinion which is what we were paying. That was in addition to providing lunch and snack depending on how many hours they worked. Personally I even picked up my cleaning lady in the morning so she saved on transportation too. I often gave clothing for her kids and groceries we weren’t using. Sometimes even toys/games that were in good condition but more age appropriate for her kids than mine. I didn’t think she would suddenly demand a $5 an hour raise and it’s very disappointing. I haven’t had help in around 2 months. I’m managing but Yom Tov time is hard especially with sleep over guests.


Last edited by lkwdlady on Thu, Sep 23 2021, 1:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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torquoise




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Sep 22 2021, 11:56 pm
Zehava wrote:
Is she here/working legally? Otherwise she has no rights regardless.


Exactly my thoughts
Didn't read through entire discussion, but as far as I know there is a hiring process for legal employees (I-9, valid identification) and most cleaning ladies are not legally employed, and therefore don't have the same rights as a legal employees.
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ladYdI




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 23 2021, 12:14 am
First of all tell her this document is only for legal workers that get paid on the books!
Lots of women were promising more money before Yom Tov because they were desperate but after Yom Tov all the ladies will be looking for work.
As for your lady tell her no because she’s planning to leave anyway. If she chooses to leave now then let it be. Right after Yom Tov you should be able to find somebody. Many ppl will cut back.
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schmoois1




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 23 2021, 1:02 am
Thank you all!
Planning to have a discussion with her tomorrow! Will let u know how it goes…
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