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Is it ok to tell cleaning lady not to come next 2 weeks?
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:04 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Do you really consider $20 an hour for scrubbing excrement out of other people's toilets to be big bucks? Even full time, no days off, its only about $40,000 a year. Can you support your family on that?

If you retain your cleaning help on an ad hoc basis, come only when I call, feel free not to come if you're busy, sure, don't pay for a day you don't call.

But if its a regular gig, then of course you pay for days you choose not to have them in.

I work a minimum wage job fully on the books and wouldnt afford half those things that the cleaning ladies can afford on their fully cash job so not sure why anyone would feel bad for them. Remember that they send their kids to public school for free so they dont have much expenses other than rent and some food (which many get at food banks for free as well). And their husbands work cash jobs as well so they get double income, no taxes, free tuition, and other benefits that an American citizen like myself doesnt get.
Not sure why anyone feels bad for them (especially if they get free transportation and free food at the job and clothing which many people give their cleaning ladies, etc).
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octopus




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:14 pm
My policy is always, if I cancel on you, I will pay you the next time you come back. But if you cancel on me I will not compensate for that.
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amother




Yarrow
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:21 pm
Omg I never thought of paying my cleaning lady when I cancel. maybe because she cancels on me all the time. Idk.
I pay her when she comes.
And if she or I cancel she doesn’t get paid. She comes once a week for 4 hours I can just about afford that if she doesn’t come why would I pay her?!
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:21 pm
octopus wrote:
My policy is always, if I cancel on you, I will pay you the next time you come back. But if you cancel on me I will not compensate for that.

Just an fyi, if someone is a hourly employee then they are not entitled to get paid even if the employer cancels on them. I say this as I work a minimum wage job, get paid by the hour and only get paid if I work. So if my employer cancels on me then I dont get paid even if they cancel the same day or even as I am on my way to them already. This is a fully taxed, govt funded job who follow all the laws so not sure why cleaning ladies (who dont pay taxes) are treated any better than citizens who pay taxes on their minimum wage jobs.
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amother




Electricblue
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:25 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Do you really consider $20 an hour for scrubbing excrement out of other people's toilets to be big bucks? Even full time, no days off, its only about $40,000 a year. Can you support your family on that?

If you retain your cleaning help on an ad hoc basis, come only when I call, feel free not to come if you're busy, sure, don't pay for a day you don't call.

But if its a regular gig, then of course you pay for days you choose not to have them in.

There are many women like me who have years younger of experience , with skills working in professional environments for that money.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:25 pm
amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:
I work a minimum wage job fully on the books and wouldnt afford half those things that the cleaning ladies can afford on their fully cash job so not sure why anyone would feel bad for them. Remember that they send their kids to public school for free so they dont have much expenses other than rent and some food (which many get at food banks for free as well). And their husbands work cash jobs as well so they get double income, no taxes, free tuition, and other benefits that an American citizen like myself doesnt get.
Not sure why anyone feels bad for them (especially if they get free transportation and free food at the job and clothing which many people give their cleaning ladies, etc).


LOL.

You are entitled to a free public education for your kids. You choose not to send your kids to pubic school? Your choice.

And I don't know about your cleaning help, but mine (well, my former help) pays rent, food, clothing, insurance, water, electricity, transportation, cell phone, entertainment, and a bunch of other things I can't think of off the top of my head.
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:34 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
LOL.

You are entitled to a free public education for your kids. You choose not to send your kids to pubic school? Your choice.

And I don't know about your cleaning help, but mine (well, my former help) pays rent, food, clothing, insurance, water, electricity, transportation, cell phone, entertainment, and a bunch of other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

No one is forcing them to pay for their entertainment and they can get food and clothing for free. And if your cleaning lady was paid legally on the books and didnt make lots of money then she was entitled to a free cell phone, assistance with rent, and other govt benefits. Plus, they can send to school for free which is not a choice for many religious Jews regardless of your prejudices and biases that you have against these Jews who want a religious education for their kids without being exposed to the garbage that is outside of the community. But glad you had the freedom to send your kids to public schools and save money that would have gone to religious schools.
But are you saying that your cleaning lady didnt work legally and you paid her off the books? If so, then you broke the laws and shouldnt be complaining or attacking anyone else for doing the same thing. I was saying that I work on the books at a minimum wage job which means I make less money than these cleaning ladies who get paid in cash, dont pay taxes, and still get transportation and food that I dont get from my employer. And my employer doesnt pay me when they cancel on me so these cleaning ladies come out ahead. Not sure why anyone feels sorry for them.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:46 pm
amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:
No one is forcing them to pay for their entertainment and they can get food and clothing for free. And if your cleaning lady was paid legally on the books and didnt make lots of money then she was entitled to a free cell phone, assistance with rent, and other govt benefits. Plus, they can send to school for free which is not a choice for many religious Jews regardless of your prejudices and biases that you have against these Jews who want a religious education for their kids without being exposed to the garbage that is outside of the community. But glad you had the freedom to send your kids to public schools and save money that would have gone to religious schools.
But are you saying that your cleaning lady didnt work legally and you paid her off the books? If so, then you broke the laws and shouldnt be complaining or attacking anyone else for doing the same thing. I was saying that I work on the books at a minimum wage job which means I make less money than these cleaning ladies who get paid in cash, dont pay taxes, and still get transportation and food that I dont get from my employer. And my employer doesnt pay me when they cancel on me so these cleaning ladies come out ahead. Not sure why anyone feels sorry for them.


I have prejudices and biases against Jews? Babes, I am a Jew. And one who is sick and tired of accusations by people like you who don't have the guts to post their nasty trash under their own names. Hashem knows who you are.

My cleaning help was a US citizen who was paid by 1099.
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 1:55 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
I have prejudices and biases against Jews? Babes, I am a Jew. And one who is sick and tired of accusations by people like you who don't have the guts to post their nasty trash under their own names. Hashem knows who you are.

My cleaning help was a US citizen who was paid by 1099.

I said you have prejudices and biases against religious jews who want their kids to get a Jewish education without being exposed to the garbage in the secular world. I never said you were not a Jew but Jews can still have prejudices and biases against other Jews who are not like them ie chasidim against MO or MO against Chasidim or Sefardim against Ashkenazim, etc. so please dont distort what I write or accuse me of attacking you when all I pointed out was your own prejudices and biases against Jews who are different than you and dont have the choices you claim they have. No, they cant "choose" to send their kids to public schools if they want to be accepted in their communities so that is not an option. I am tired of you pretending that they have choices when they dont. If you dont understand this then say I dont understand what its like to not have choices and we can explain it to you.
Anyway, this thread has derailed too much. Going back to op, op you can cancel on your cleaning lady without having to pay for it. You can decide to pay her but you are not required by law to do so (I say this as someone who works a minimum wage job, fully on the books and isnt paid anything if her employers cancels). She is also able to find other work as well if she wants and maybe then she will pay taxes but that is on her. Good luck.
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octopus




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 2:06 pm
amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:
Just an fyi, if someone is a hourly employee then they are not entitled to get paid even if the employer cancels on them. I say this as I work a minimum wage job, get paid by the hour and only get paid if I work. So if my employer cancels on me then I dont get paid even if they cancel the same day or even as I am on my way to them already. This is a fully taxed, govt funded job who follow all the laws so not sure why cleaning ladies (who dont pay taxes) are treated any better than citizens who pay taxes on their minimum wage jobs.


I'm an hourly employee too so I know what I'm doing is generous. I'm very picky with my help so if I employ someone, it's because they are really good and I want to keep them.
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ValleyMom




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 2:26 pm
We are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but we are FAIR.
If it is our choice to cancel our housekeeper pay her.
During the lockdown we gave her as much as we could spare for the few months she didn't work at our home and she was very grateful.
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amother




Hawthorn
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 2:30 pm
Quote: “And yes, I can support my family on $40,000/yr off the books and therefore receiving every possible government program out there. (One of my cleaning ladies went on a family vacation every year for a full week, among other times-but I didn’t)!”

Just as a “PS”: their husbands (if they have one) are usually doing the same-working off the books. So if you double the two salaries with no tuition, Shabbos, Yom Tov etc...yeah, one can live more than comfortably (even with the husband working on the books).

Of course they TOTALLY work for it and good for them for working hard and making money. The American Dream. Go for it!

But “feeling bad” or “crying poverty” or “lacking in basics” (or even some luxuries)...uuum, no.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 2:32 pm
I specifically take cleaning ladies on YT since I don’t want to be busy cleaning during that time.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:17 pm
amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:
I said you have prejudices and biases against religious jews who want their kids to get a Jewish education without being exposed to the garbage in the secular world. I never said you were not a Jew but Jews can still have prejudices and biases against other Jews who are not like them ie chasidim against MO or MO against Chasidim or Sefardim against Ashkenazim, etc. so please dont distort what I write or accuse me of attacking you when all I pointed out was your own prejudices and biases against Jews who are different than you and dont have the choices you claim they have. No, they cant "choose" to send their kids to public schools if they want to be accepted in their communities so that is not an option. I am tired of you pretending that they have choices when they dont. If you dont understand this then say I dont understand what its like to not have choices and we can explain it to you.


Well, I'll let Hashem decide whether or not its problematic to tell a frum Jewish woman that she has prejudices against "religious Jews" who "want their kids to get a Jewish education."
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:28 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Well, I'll let Hashem decide whether or not its problematic to tell a frum Jewish woman that she has prejudices against "religious Jews" who "want their kids to get a Jewish education."

Yes, lets have Hashem decide if religious Jews have the freedom to "choose" to send their kids to public school rather than a religious school or to eat expensive kosher food over cheap non-kosher food or to buy clothing for Yom Tov and Shabbos separately from weekday clothing, etc. all of which are expenses that the cleaning lady doesnt have and no Jew should tell another Jew that that is their "choice" (but if you do make the claim that its a "choice" then you will be called out for it as its clear bias and prejudice which is not ok especially not after Yom Kippur). I hope you find it in your heart to have as much tolerance, acceptance, compassion and empathy for Jews who are different from you and may not have the freedom to make the choices you do as you have for illegal cleaning ladies who dont pay taxes.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:48 pm
amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:
Yes, lets have Hashem decide if religious Jews have the freedom to "choose" to send their kids to public school rather than a religious school or to eat expensive kosher food over cheap non-kosher food or to buy clothing for Yom Tov and Shabbos separately from weekday clothing, etc. all of which are expenses that the cleaning lady doesnt have and no Jew should tell another Jew that that is their "choice" (but if you do make the claim that its a "choice" then you will be called out for it as its clear bias and prejudice which is not ok especially not after Yom Kippur). I hope you find it in your heart to have as much tolerance, acceptance, compassion and empathy for Jews who are different from you and may not have the freedom to make the choices you do as you have for illegal cleaning ladies who dont pay taxes.


She’s right it is a choice, even though it’s very important to us. Being frum is very expensive.
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amother




SandyBrown
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:55 pm
No. I will not pay my cleaning lady when I cancel her. She comes once a week for 7 hours. If she doesn’t come she doesn’t get paid. She cancels on me way more than I cancel on her. I’m ultra devoted. But the second they get a better offer they run leaving you high and dry. Devotion is many times a waste of effort. I get paid by the hour. If the mom cancels my session I don’t get paid. How is this different? I don’t make money over yom tov because my clients cancelled on me. Are they supposed to pay me anyways?
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 3:55 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
She’s right it is a choice, even though it’s very important to us. Being frum is very expensive.

Its not a choice for many Jews even if it may be a choice for you. So you are free to send your kids to public school and wont lose your job or family over it but you cant say that about other Jews who will have their lives ruined if they even do anything that doesnt fall in line with their community they live in (which they didnt choose either as most are born into it). You are lucky that you have choices but dont pretend other Jews have the same choices as you. That is all. Time to go back to preparing for sukkos. Chag Sameach.
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amother




IndianRed
 

Post Mon, Sep 20 2021, 4:06 pm
I always feel bad not paying my cleaning help on days that I dont need her help, as in yom tov, the 9 days, etc..
Interestingly enough though my workplace, a very heimish jewish owned business doesnt pay its employees for Yom tovim when we are closed.
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amother




Junglegreen
 

Post Wed, Sep 22 2021, 10:16 pm
Me thinks this convo is only here because we are dealing with immigrants, many illegals....
Otherwise nobody would care to pay them for days off...
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