Naming for an abusive grandparent

amother

Obsidian

Mon, Sep 27 2021, 5:29 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

I only found out after naming my child after my husbands father how abusive he was, as it wasn’t something public. I don’t think the others who named after him even know.
I would never have given the name had I known before but by now the name already became my child’s name and I don’t associate it w my fil anymore but w my delightful child bh.
I told my husband that I’m going to encourage my children to not give the name though. Obv I know I don’t have a say but will let them know we’re ok if they don’t give it...

Me too. Thankfully, we had added a name already. My MIL was randomly talking to me around ds's eleventh birthday and told me about how afraid she was of her father and a bit about why. She had always told me nice, cute stories before that, and seemed genuinely happy when I gave the name. It felt like she viewed what happened as par for the course, and just wanted to tell about it like anything else. I wish she hadn't.

amother

cornflower

Tue, Sep 28 2021, 1:40 pm

DH grandfather was not a good person and DH father told all his children not to name after the grandfather and no one did.

My father was a terrible person, none of my siblings nor I will ever name for him.

amother

Dustypink

Tue, Sep 28 2021, 1:59 pm

I only discovered as an adult with kids of my own that my grandfather was abusive, and even that was never said officially, just hints and snippets throughout the years. Yet all my parent’s siblings named after this grandfather, including my parent. I think they appreciate all the good that he did and just block the bad, like they never talk about the abuse it other dodgy things he may have done. For years, he hardly came up in conversation (he died young when only two grandchildren were born). Now that my grandmother has passed away some hints do come up but I think it’s too painful for them to talk about. I think it’s very complicated, and I’m happy that I never had to deal with him or the question of naming for him. Maybe in a way it was also their way of doing a tikkun on behalf of their father. I remember how shocked my parent was when his youngest sibling named after their father. I don’t think there is one right answer here.

heidi

Wed, Sep 29 2021, 12:49 am

DH's grandfather was born, raised and married frum and became an atheist. He and DH's grandmother (who remained frum)raised 4 kids all not frum, most divorced multiple times. We agreed not to name after either of them. Instead, we named after DH'S grandmother's father who was known to have been a good person.

ora_43

Wed, Sep 29 2021, 6:36 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

My first responsibility is towards my child, and that means not to saddle him with the name of a bad person.

This.

I had a situation where a relative wanted me to name after their abusive parent. Nope. WADR to the fact that it would have made that relative happy, my kid doesn't exist to make other people happy. They are their own person, with their own feelings. And I'm not going to give them a name with such terrible associations.

Imagine being 8 and finding out that you were named for a cheating, abusive addict who nobody liked.

(to be fair, in some families people might be tactful enough not to tell an 8-year-old that to their face. but even so. you can't rely on the kid never figuring it out.)

amother

Aqua

Wed, Sep 29 2021, 1:46 pm

My father was physically abusive and many of my siblings named a child for him as a second name. We also used it as a second name but it was very connected to the time our son was born. One sibling didn't use it and then someone got sick and then they used the name for their next son. I felt our father suffered enough in this world as nearly all of us cut him out of our life and this should be a zchus for him and for us. B"H all the boys with this name are normal bright and healthy boys bringing Nachas to HKB"H.

amother

Bergamot

Wed, Sep 29 2021, 5:45 pm

What do you all consider abusive? This term is being thrown around this thread a lot. I agree that one shouldn't name after an abusive person but what qualifies?

My grandfather is what most will call abusive. He is extremely moody. Will decide not to talk to us when visiting sometimes and will be all welcoming other times. This behaviour among other things is very hurtful. But I realise he's not a healthy person and it doesn't come from a nasty place but rather, helpless and mentally unstable. He should be taking mood stabilising meds. So I think I would try focus on his good qualities and name after him.

amother

Lilac

Thu, Sep 30 2021, 12:48 am

amother [ Stonewash ] wrote:

Would never name after an abusive grandparent and would not want my child or grandchild to name after my abusive mother.

However my husband wants to name after his semi abusive father.

Same boat. Currently on bc but don't want to have another boy for this reason Twisted Evil

amother

Dustypink

Thu, Sep 30 2021, 12:52 am

amother [ Bergamot ] wrote:

My grandfather was physically abusive. I gather he was a harsh person too who got into fights and may have also had some shady business dealings or practices. I don't know if that makes him a bad person though because he also did a lot of good. The children named for him are all good people.

amother

DarkMagenta

Thu, Sep 30 2021, 1:03 am

My sister was in this situation and was advised by rav that she and dh have the intention that the name is after the person in Tanach with the same name as grandparent. She was happy to find a way to save face and followed that advise. That child is unusually good-looking and intelligent b"h and she has no regrets.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Sep 30 2021, 2:06 am

amother [ Bergamot ] wrote:

For me, the relative physically beat her children and was also emotionally abusive (example: I wish you had died instead of so and so… oh you need money? Go stand on the corner and sell yourself…..) in retrospective a very sick person.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:24 pm

amother [ DarkMagenta ] wrote:

I think this is a good idea, but the question is will you be reminded of the person every time you say the child's name? And if it's a negative association is that fair to the child?

amother

Aqua

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:27 pm

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

I think this is a good idea, but the question is will you be reminded of the person every time you say the child's name? And if it's a negative association is that fair to the child?

We have no association at all, never think about it. Also we use a nickname version - like Yudi or Hudi instead of Yehuda.

amother

Stonewash

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:29 pm

amother [ Bergamot ] wrote:

All of the abusive people I know were abused themselves.

Great grandmother escaped the Nazis. Enough said.
She abused my grandmother who abused my mother who abused me.

Not naming after any of them.

amother

Sage

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Not currently shayach, but I've been thinking about this.

If your parent was abused by one of their parents (emotionally, physically etc.), and you experienced the intergenerational effects of that abuse, did / would you name after that grandparent?
If you did - Full name? Half name?
If not, and it was intentional, does your parent know about it?

If you are a child of an abusive parent, would you want your children to name their children for your abusive parent? Would you understand if they didn't?

TIA

You add a different name and don’t call the child by the abusive person’s exact name, that’s what I was told by a posek.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:45 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

We have no association at all, never think about it. Also we use a nickname version - like Yudi or Hudi instead of Yehuda.

I guess I was thinking about my own situation. I don't know how I would be able to not think about it. My sibling used the name and it does bring a strong association. A creative nickname is probably the way to go.

amother

DarkYellow

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 1:22 am

I have this dilema with a grandparent. I think I would give a second name after a great person to counteract. My family would be hurt if I didnt name after this grandparent