Teen dd disclosing same zex attraction

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 2:06 am

You need to be there for her. If you give up on her now she will tell herself “I am really a screw up. Even my own parents think so”

I mean if her parents, the people who are supposed to love her unconditionally and the most in the world think she’s hopeless, why should anyone in the world not agree?

She may or may not be gay. But either way you need to get guidance on how to handle a challengingly teen. You need to love her regardless.

You should be a mountain of stability and love in her confusing world.

I suggest looking into the nurtured heart parenting approach.

THIS isnt About you anymore. It’s about her

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 3:14 am

I feel your pain.
But reading the subtext of your post, it seems your reaction is making things worse. You don’t tell a kid ‘to shut her mouth’. Not even in your own mind. There is a big difference between thinking she should keep quiet and thinking she should shut her mouth.

You totally lost me at ‘cut her off’. You would consider cutting her off for something like this? Why? What good would it do?

I suggest therapy for you and dh to learn how to deal with a rebellious teen. Often the rebellion has roots in family dynamics, or can become worse if the family responds in the wrong way.

Therapy for her too of course. But therapy for you is no less important.

And hugs. Teen rebellion is extremely painful and traumatic for everyone. Do keep in mind what others have said - most emerge fine down the road. Your goal should be to ensure no long term damage comes to her meanwhile.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 3:32 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am not sure what to do.
Our teen dd came to us and stated she is gay.
Dh and I are beside ourselves but she is extremely adamant that this is how she is.
We love her but are hurt and not thrilled.

She has told a few of her friends. FYI, she attends a BY high school. School hasn’t started up again yet but we already have a meeting with the administrator scheduled, at their request.
We have told her to keep her mouth shut and she shouldn’t be thinking about these kinds of relationships at all right now. She is not acting very respectful towards us though. Almost like she likes seeing us so uncomfortable.

Dh is beyond despair. I am more angry because I see a lot of rebellion in her and we aren’t sure where to go.

I honestly don’t believe dd is ‘gay’ or whatever. I do believe she is in a huge rebellious streak though.

Is there anyone out there going through this with their teen?

I love her. But I cannot accept what she is telling us and if she keeps insisting on it, I may need to consider cutting her off.

OP why do you feel hurt? This is not about you, it is literally all about your daughter. Weather it is for rebellious purposes that she is telling you or if it is true, the most important thing to show her that you love her always and accept her how she is, especially if it is rebellion.
Second, why oh why did you have to bring her school into this? Do you think she is the first gay student they ever had? I a more than 100% positive many orthodox schools have gay students. Its just not spoken about.
And lastly, youd cut her off because of this? That says way more about you as a person than anything else. And completely the wrong approach, if I may say so.

Bubby6

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 3:37 am

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

I wouldn’t cut her off or let her for a second believe you’d cut her off for being “gay” because she will forveee hold it against you and will forger get sympathy from people who will never understand the full picture. Making herself the victim and a crazy religious cult and parents not loving her for her

I can also see it being a phase caused by rebellion. Teenagers are pained. It’s weird part of life. Half child. Half adult. Not free enough but also freer than a 10 year old.

Maybe she feels unloved. Unimportant. Maybe she feels like she isn’t appreciated. That she can’t be loved for who she is. Like a child who throws a tantrum to get reaction and attention. It’s the reaction and attention that she’s craving. But don’t let them be negative ones. Try and create positive loving validating responses. Try and make her feel like you’re actually interested in her and her feelings without trying to fix them.

Religion is tough for those who see the I outside world as liberating and fun. It’s not. But they cannot see it.
Whatever her journey will be in life. You just have to make her feel loved. As her parent. Disowning her will only cause her to have an even harder or worse life than if you just loved her and let her have a phase.

Don’t get riled up jsut yet. Don’t let your husband get riled up just yet. Go give her a hug. Together and tell her you guys love her and your lives are so much better because of her. Teenagers need that extra love.

Please read the above over and over again. Amother Maroon makes so much sense. Dont, just don't get riled up. She needs a lot of attention and love. Sounds difficult but it works. In fact parental approval is the most important thing in life, especially a teen acting out.

amother

Plum

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 3:58 am

First and foremost please get guidance from a professional - don't do or say ANYTHING until then. You will need a lot of support through this journey. You will also learn how to give, give, give and not ask or expect anything. Right now you need to "fill up her bank account" with warmth and love.
One of our daughters struggled as our teenager and we learned what it meant to just give and give. We learned to listen to psychologists & Mechanchim and follow their opinion - to be completely self effacing. It's a big lesson in humility. It will be hard facing the fact that many things you have done until now might not have been beneficial to her. But it will give you many skills for the future.
I had a friend who couldn't listen to professionals and Rabanim. Her daughter moved out and has no contact with her parents - she got married and her parents didn't come to her wedding.
You can choose to threaten, shout, try to make rules...but then you will lose your child.

amother

Tomato

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 4:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m saying this as someone who has many rebellious friends in high school whose parent had varying reactions.

You say you love your daughter. But all I am reading is that you only love her if she is a certain way.

Maybe she is gay, maybe she isn’t.

But if you truly love someone you don’t cut them off because they tell you something you don’t like.

Why are you angry? You need to explore your own feelings as a parent.

Why are you hurt? Why does your daughter want to see you being uncomfortable?

How is cutting off your child (who is still a child) going to help? All it is is a statement that says. I don’t love you unconditionally, I love you if you behave according to my standards.

You say you have been an involved parent?

What does that mean to you? Are you involved in your child as she is? And who she is? Or as it reflects back on you?

I really think therapy to explore the underlying reasons for all these emotions (both yours and your daughters) would be helpful.

I’m sure you love your child. But sometimes we can get caught up in our own world and view our children merely as extensions and reflections of ourselves instead of who they really are.

As a special neshama, one of Hashem’s children, unique and irreplaceable, gifted to us to love nurture and parent in the best way for that child, not in the way that raises our social standing or that fits into community norms.

Good luck on this journey.

Being a good parent forces us to really delve into our own personal psyches as well.

ora_43

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 4:30 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

OP here. We are very involved parents. However, she has been challenging for many years now and just seems to gloat in our misery. It’s like she is really trying to find the most extreme statement, viewpoint to get a reaction. Dd has lived a fairly sheltered life so her rebellion and zest for a counter culture life really comes out of nowhere. She’s just not even shy about it and doesn’t seem to care about our pain.

"Seems to" is a key phrase here, though.

Some kids turn 'I don't care' into an art form. But I think that even for them, in 99% of cases, they do care. Maybe there's a part of them that enjoys the feeling of power that comes with causing drama; maybe there's a part of them that enjoys feeling persecuted. But there's also a not-small part of them that loves their parents and desperately wants to feel accepted and loved by them.

I really doubt she gloats in your misery. If nothing else - she's a teen, your misery isn't fully real to her yet.

I'm not saying that her pushing you away is all in your head. She is pushing. But don't think that means she actually wants you gone.

'Her rebellion comes out of nowhere' - doesn't it always? Kids just have different personalities. I mean I have one kid who at age 4 would have burst into tears if I so much as frowned in her general direction, and another who at the same age, not knowing any bad words, made up her own so that she could fully express her anger when I did terrible things like not letting her break the windows.

Anyway. I agree with whoever said it - tell her you need time to think over what she said, tell her that you love her and will always be there for her. And then get help for yourself before tackling the whole coming-out thing. In the meantime, avoid suggesting that she keep it private, or that she's not really gay she just thinks she is, or anything else that will fuel her sense that you don't understand and/or are mistreating her.

If at all possible, find something you can do together just to have positive experiences together. Go hiking, bake a cake, watch a movie, take her shopping, take her to an art museum. Whatever it is that she likes and that would be special for her. Something that says you care about her and enjoy spending time with her on her terms.

Chickensoupprof

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 4:34 am

Yeah I’m leftwing, yeah I took a course in gender, zexuality and diversity in university and I cover my hair and everything almost only read Jewish books and listen to 3/4 shiurim a week. But no cutting of not letting her mouth shut. Give love and acceptance maybe indeed it’s a phase and part of being rebellious maybe not and if not what is the big problem? Really, would you rather want to have a child who’s admitting a criminal offence? A child who will rape or assault others? A child who gets a deadly painful disease? Or w child what is mb rebellious also because of her zexuality and if you give her acceptance and love will grow out to a loving woman who perhaps has a gay relationship.

icebreaker

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 5:38 am

I have a lesbian daughter who is currently in college. Doing quite well, might I add. There were times she was difficult, but “cutting her off” never even crossed my mind. I didn’t even know parents still did that. Sometimes, our children don’t turn out the way we want them to. It may hurt, but then you have to get over it. Ultimately, it’s their lives. Sit down and ask her what she wants to do with her life. Maybe this will mean she has to switch schools. Maybe this means she doesn’t want to remain religious anymore. She needs guidance, love, and acceptance. Please don’t just toss her to the side because she doesn’t conform to whatever standards you want her to.

amother

Magnolia

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 6:21 am

OP, I feel for you.

I remember when our children were little, my husband and I had the "What if" conversation. What if they choose a different derech, what if they go completely OTD, what if they're queer, what if, what if, what if.

The conclusion we came to as their parents is, we will love them unconditionally and our home will always be their home.
Why? Because we created them.
We chose to bring children into this world where there are so many struggles, where keeping torah and mitzvos is SO hard.

The least, very least we can do, is love them, even if the mechanisms they choose to cope with the world are not the ones we would have chosen for ourselves.

My teenage son struggled A LOT in his early teens (not with samesx attraction, just with life in general). He made decisions we did not approve of.

We never punished him, or forced him to do anything. We just offered him options that helped him. He travelled, changed yeshivos, and now he is a serious yiras shamayim learner.

I think your daughter is hurting and needs your unconditional love more than ever.

For what it's worth, I'm not gay, but I did have an extremely unsupportive mother who did not love unconditionally. This led to several issues and at some point, it just became unbearable to live together, because she wanted me out.

The result?

I moved away at 16, lived crashing with friends for years, built a great career, got married at 23, to a man my mother has never met, and she was not at my wedding. She doesn't know and never will know her grandchildren. And yes, I was frum and still am.
It has been over 25 years of not having my mother in my life.

It's not a punishment. It's just the natural result of an unloving parent. I've even had rabbonim tell me that I shouldn't see my mother at all with how she behaved.

So my only advice is, don't lose your daughter. I can imagine it is SO hard to go through what you're going through, and you might just want to close the door on her and tell her to figure it out. But she still loves you. As long as she's still at home, she loves you.
Remember how you felt when you were looking at that little baby. Did you love her unconditionally then?

Your daughter isn't doing anything halachically forbidden as far as we know. She isn't committing crimes as far as we know.
So she's a little different and needs a little space. Sit with her and tell her you love her.

You can only gain from this.

I wish you all the best.

amother

Banana

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 7:16 am

I didn't read all the responses so I'm sure someone has said this already, but PLEASE don't get riled up.

Just be normal, it's either a phase or it isn't. In any case, making a federal case out of it is simply creating an issue for no reason.

Give your daughter love, teach her good middos, to value her connection with hashem, to do well in school, to treat people well....ya know, the important things. Don't get sucked into irrelevant conflict

At this point in her life, it doesn't make much of a difference one way of another.

Most importantly, this is not about you. So let go of the "what will ppl think" and "I'm so devastated " etc. Just focus on your life and family

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 7:50 am

I went through a stage in high school. I wasn’t and didn’t pretend to be gay but I pretended to be suicidal. I was also mechalel Shabbos and ate trief.

What do you think brought me back to the fold?
My loving father who was there for me always with love and acceptance, never yelled at me, helped me find a good school, good mentors, therapists etc, drive me to friends houses….

Or my mother who got upset when I wore nail polish, no tights, and shorter denim skirts?

Who do you think I talk to today and have a loving relationship with, and my frum, Torah learning Yeshiva-attending children adore?

amother

Lilac

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 7:58 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Of course they feel hurt and scared. That first time you hold your baby in your arms, you see her future. You see her running in the playground with her friends; you see her first day of school; you see her sitting with you and talking about her problems; you see her chuppah, her husband, her children. And no matter how much you love her, its going to hurt, and you're going to be scared, when she tells you that she's not sharing those dreams.

OP needs time, and she needs someone to talk to to deal with these changes.

She's still your daughter. She's still that baby you held.

I suggest that your DD be in touch with JQY https://www.jqyouth.org/, whose mission includes, "Our goal is for all these individuals to know: You are a valued member of the Jewish community and you are not alone." Read that again. a valued member of the Jewish community. That's where you start, OP. Tell her. We love you. You are a valued member of the Jewish community. Nothing changes.

JQY also has resources for parents, BTW. https://www.jqyouth.org/program/parents/

imasinger

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 8:12 am

essie14 wrote:

....
OP, please contact
https://www.eshelonline.org/
...

I feel for you, OP. And for your DH, and for your DD.

This is a hard, lonely, and sometimes scary path.

The above link can be a helpful resource. You'll find other parents of BY girls who have BTDT. You'll find people who can help you sort out the overwhelming, tangled mess of your feelings and experiences, as well as hers. You'll find ideas for rabbis and professionals who can counsel and help.

In the meantime, see if you can schedule a time to sit further with your DD between now and this meeting with the school. Plan for the meeting to be an information gathering opportunity for you, and table any desire to make a decision or even talk further about your own opinions on anything. There will be opportunity to do so later, but stick some masking tape over your mouth, and limit your part of this particular conversation to asking questions and thanking DD for sharing, both at the start, and at the end. Take notes. Again, DO NOT RESPOND YET, that comes later. Here are some things you'll probably want to consider saying:

- We have been thinking a lot about what you told us, DD. It's a struggle for us to think about, but we appreciate your honesty in coming to talk to us, and we want to learn more about you, and about what your thoughts are about how this information would change your life.

When did you first start thinking about your orientation?

Do you know anyone else who has walked this path?

If you felt you had a choice in this, would you choose to feel this way? Why or why not?

In sharing your view of yourself with some classmates, what were you hoping to gain? Did it match the reality?

Are you happy at school? If not, and you had the option, where would you rather be? Why?

Many teens find it helpful to have an adult they can talk to openly, often a therapist. Is this something you feel you might benefit from?

During this time that we are trying to understand you better, what's the most important thing in your opinion that we can say or do? (We're not saying or doing anything right now, just looking to understand first.)

(If the response is something on the lines of "say you still love me, and can accept me", then consider speaking up right away to offer as much love as you can, with details -- "we live you very much, and appreciate... [your creativity, your intelligence, the strength of your ideals", whatever]"). Follow up question -- what makes you feel unvalued or unloved?

Other questions will probably occur naturally as you begin. Remember, your job right now I'd to listen, take notes, and end with thanking her for sharing.

You'll want this information from her before speaking to school, rav, or therapist.

If you want to share it here, or in PM, you can probably get good guidance for some next steps.

Finally, I think it's important to note -- reading this thread might make you feel like you've been a horrible parent.

I'm guessing the likelihood is that you're not. This whole situation is overwhelming, and even a generally loving, supportive and kind parent can be thrown for a loop with That Child. Remember, her behavior is about her, not about you.

You will have some painful feelings to struggle through. Hang in there, and do reach out to others who can understand.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 8:39 am

I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised at how positive, loving, and supporting the answers are in this thread. It really warms my heart.

When I was 16 I was cut off and thrown out of the house. My DD at 12yo told me that she was bizexual. I told her "OK, let me know if you want to talk." and that was the last I heard of it.

OP, it sounds like you've been frustrated by your DD for a long time, and that throwing her out of the house would be a relief. You could carry on with your otherwise perfect family, pretending that the "problem child" was never there. That's what my parents did. I didn't talk to my parents until my mom was extremely ill and wanted to make up with me before she passed.

Is that what you really want? Is your perfect image and perfect home worth just "getting rid of her"? You make it sound as easy as taking out the garbage. Just dump her on the curb, and hope someone comes along to pick her up and take her away.

Another thing to remember, for anyone with a male or female child, is

There is zexual orientation
There is zexual attraction
and there is zexual ACTIONS.

These are NOT the same things. For all you know, DD hasn't laid a finger on another girl yet.

Nobody every changed their zexual orientation by having their parents throw a temper tantrum.

Genesis Rabbah l.c., explains it thus: "If thou despisest any man, thou despisest God who made man in His image."

amother

Clematis

Fri, Oct 01 2021, 9:09 am

Do NOT cut off your teen because she says she might be gay!!!
Love her. Be there for her. She may or may not be. Your job as her PARENT is to love her anyway.

amother [ OP ] wrote: