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Raise Advice
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:04 pm
Is it normal to ask for a considerable large raise- 15-25% after a year or two of working for the same business? Is there any protocol when it comes to this?
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amother
Whitewash


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:18 pm
Generally speaking no. The best way to go about this is get a job offer from somewhere else and use it as leverage to increase your pay.
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Tirza




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 3:58 pm
Yes, you can definitely ask for a raise, particularly if you feel that they are pleased with your work. Ask for a bit more than you actually want, to leave some room for negotiation.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:19 pm
Can it backfire and they'll just let you go? Any experience with that?
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:22 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Can it backfire and they'll just let you go? Any experience with that?


They rob ably won’t let you go but would more likely give a counteroffer.

And 25% raise is definitely not normal.
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amother
Bergamot


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:27 pm
amother [ Caramel ] wrote:
They rob ably won’t let you go but would more likely give a counteroffer.

And 25% raise is definitely not normal.


I’ve definitely heard where it backfired. If you’re asking for such a big raise it has to make sense so back it up with data of what you’ve accomplished etc.
Maybe reach out to a career coach? I had good experience with shaina keren
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:27 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Is it normal to ask for a considerable large raise- 15-25% after a year or two of working for the same business? Is there any protocol when it comes to this?

There's no one-size-fits-all answer. I think the two most important questions are, how does your salary compare to the industry average, and what's the value you're bringing to the business?

If you were hired at a below-average salary, then a 20% raise might be very reasonable. If you're bringing in 30% more income than expected, a 20% raise would be reasonable.

If your salary is about standard for the work that you're doing, it would be a harder sell.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:30 pm
Not sure where you're located OP, and what you do... But I just had an employee I hired 18 months ago ask for a raise. She told me that the starting salary has increased drastically all over (because of inflation?) which I was unaware of. I did some research and learned that there are mamish no capable employees applying for positions in my industry and that starting salary is indeed significantly more than two years ago. It was easier for me to raise her the 20% she requested than to find someone new...
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:30 pm
Asking for a raise in and of itself is unlikely to backfire.

Asking for a large raise without good reasons to back it up could make you look out of touch. So be sure to prepare and be clear with your reasoning.

Demanding a higher salary, or coming with an offer from another business, could definitely backfire. They might give a generous counteroffer and everything ends well - or they could start to see you as someone who has one foot out the door, and start looking for a replacement.

That said - if you're worth 25% more, and they aren't giving you that, them letting you go might not be the worst thing.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:45 pm
ora_43 wrote:
Asking for a raise in and of itself is unlikely to backfire.

Asking for a large raise without good reasons to back it up could make you look out of touch. So be sure to prepare and be clear with your reasoning.

Demanding a higher salary, or coming with an offer from another business, could definitely backfire. They might give a generous counteroffer and everything ends well - or they could start to see you as someone who has one foot out the door, and start looking for a replacement.

That said - if you're worth 25% more, and they aren't giving you that, them letting you go might not be the worst thing.


It's difficult to know how it may come across because there aren't specific numbers to bring but overall, it is clear to all that my role is being fulfilled 100% plus and after a year or two, u know the ins and the outs and are much more valuable to the business. Even asking may make them question whether u are devoted or half way out the door so don't want to rock any boats right now but will feel resentful if continue with it.
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:52 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
It's difficult to know how it may come across because there aren't specific numbers to bring but overall, it is clear to all that my role is being fulfilled 100% plus and after a year or two, u know the ins and the outs and are much more valuable to the business. Even asking may make them question whether u are devoted or half way out the door so don't want to rock any boats right now but will feel resentful if continue with it.


Asking for a raise doesn’t show you’re not devoted. Coming to them with another company’s offer does, perhaps.

You are more valuable after a year or two, but 15-25% more?

Can you ask others in similar positions what they make?
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Ellie7




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 6:20 pm
amother [ Whitewash ] wrote:
Generally speaking no. The best way to go about this is get a job offer from somewhere else and use it as leverage to increase your pay.


This can definitely backfire. Even if they give you the raise to keep you, they'll always think you're looking for other offers, which doesn't make you seem very loyal and makes it a hard sell to invest more in you.

I'd go with data on what others are paid in the industry (you can use sites like Glassdoor to help) and proof of the excellent work you do. And then ask for something reasonable (definitely go a little higher to negotiate). 25% sounds high, but it does depend on those other factors.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 6:20 pm
I think it will only be serious if it's shown that other companies are paying much higher for similar positions so it's important to mention an offer but then it may backfire and show less interest in the current business.
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 6:32 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think it will only be serious if it's shown that other companies are paying much higher for similar positions so it's important to mention an offer but then it may backfire and show less interest in the current business.


Just ask your peers. Don’t make it sound like you’re looking for a new job. Say I know my peers in this industry are making xxx, so that seems to be fair market value.

And yes, it’s a risk, that’s life. No pain no gain
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amother
Glitter


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 6:33 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think it will only be serious if it's shown that other companies are paying much higher for similar positions so it's important to mention an offer but then it may backfire and show less interest in the current business.


You can research the average salary for your particular position, and then gauge where your pay is according to that.

Also important to note is how your workplace is currently faring. If its not on solid footing at the moment, or has experienced a decline in profits, then asking for a large raise at this time won't look very good.

Either way, prepare yourself properly and build your case beforehand. Gather all the information, and all that you've done and are doing for them so you can lay it all out for them. If you're a valued employee, they'll work out something with you. If they can't give you something that you're satisfied with, negotiate a timetable for future increases. Negotiation is the name of the game. But if they're unwilling to come to the table with you, then you just may need to keep your eyes own for other opportunities.

It is an employee's market right now, so grab the bulls by the horns and go for it.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 7:29 pm
My humble piece of advice..

Employers like employees who like their job. As much as you deserve your salary they also deserve hakaras hatov (assuming they treat you fairly)
I don’t think the approach of getting another offer will do well for you. Firstly, it’ll show a lack of investment on your end. Secondly it won’t do well long term for you at all. You can only try that once and then what?
What you want to do is have a frank convo with your boss.
I’m in the same position now… I started my job 2.5 years ago with a pretty decent salary for my field. The first year was COVID and we were closed a lot so I got a pretty small raise due to the circumstances which I totally understood. Then my boss raised me again with a small raise a few months later Bec he wanted me on the same raise schedule as all other employees. And it’ll be a year in a few months and I have been thinking about this a lot.

I don’t think percentages make any impact in the non corporate world. Especially with frum bosses and frum employees.

This is how I plan on going about it. I’m hoping for a very substantial raise.

A) I know I deserve it. I’m a very hard worker and really helped the company grow a lot. I’m dedicated and efficient
B) I’m there for a nice bit already and at this point have a lot more responsibility than I initially started with
C) the cost of living really has gone up and there is a severe shortage of capable employees and I know he doesn’t want to lose me

With those points in mind, I will say something like the following.

I really enjoy working here, the environment is wonderful and I really appreciate working with you and value the growth that the company is having.

We both know that I put my heart and soul into this company and have really contributed to the growth that we have seen.
In addition, living costs have really gone up all around. (I’m paying more for childcare food and cleaning help) and the market value for employees have gone up as well.
I’m hoping to get a significant raise for this coming year…

If he asks me a number I will say I have something in mind but prefer to first hear your evaluation on what you think is a fair raise at this point in my career.

If he comes back with the number I want or higher- awesome
If not- I can always then give my Number and say- this is what I had in mind can we get to that or at least closer…

Notice I said nothing about I could get more in another job, and didn’t come in as a power struggle and showed appreciation for what I currently have…

I think any fair boss would understand where an employee is coming from and if they are valued to the company would really try to work it out for them.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 7:38 pm
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
My humble piece of advice..

Employers like employees who like their job. As much as you deserve your salary they also deserve hakaras hatov (assuming they treat you fairly)
I don’t think the approach of getting another offer will do well for you. Firstly, it’ll show a lack of investment on your end. Secondly it won’t do well long term for you at all. You can only try that once and then what?
What you want to do is have a frank convo with your boss.
I’m in the same position now… I started my job 2.5 years ago with a pretty decent salary for my field. The first year was COVID and we were closed a lot so I got a pretty small raise due to the circumstances which I totally understood. Then my boss raised me again with a small raise a few months later Bec he wanted me on the same raise schedule as all other employees. And it’ll be a year in a few months and I have been thinking about this a lot.

I don’t think percentages make any impact in the non corporate world. Especially with frum bosses and frum employees.

This is how I plan on going about it. I’m hoping for a very substantial raise.

A) I know I deserve it. I’m a very hard worker and really helped the company grow a lot. I’m dedicated and efficient
B) I’m there for a nice bit already and at this point have a lot more responsibility than I initially started with
C) the cost of living really has gone up and there is a severe shortage of capable employees and I know he doesn’t want to lose me

With those points in mind, I will say something like the following.

I really enjoy working here, the environment is wonderful and I really appreciate working with you and value the growth that the company is having.

We both know that I put my heart and soul into this company and have really contributed to the growth that we have seen.
In addition, living costs have really gone up all around. (I’m paying more for childcare food and cleaning help) and the market value for employees have gone up as well.
I’m hoping to get a significant raise for this coming year…

If he asks me a number I will say I have something in mind but prefer to first hear your evaluation on what you think is a fair raise at this point in my career.

If he comes back with the number I want or higher- awesome
If not- I can always then give my Number and say- this is what I had in mind can we get to that or at least closer…

Notice I said nothing about I could get more in another job, and didn’t come in as a power struggle and showed appreciation for what I currently have…

I think any fair boss would understand where an employee is coming from and if they are valued to the company would really try to work it out for them.


Good points, I appreciate you taking the time to list these. The dilemma is that when asking for a raise, they may just give a bit to satisfy your asking and they'll expect you to just take it and be quiet. When you show that your value has increased and other places are offering a specific amount, it puts more pressure for them to take you seriously and consider a higher salary than they would've orginially been ok to offer. It's very tempting to discuss another offer since it makes the message very clear and it's not just that you're hyping yourself up.
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 7:42 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Good points, I appreciate you taking the time to list these. The dilemma is that when asking for a raise, they may just give a bit to satisfy your asking and they'll expect you to just take it and be quiet. When you show that your value has increased and other places are offering a specific amount, it puts more pressure for them to take you seriously and consider a higher salary than they would've orginially been ok to offer. It's very tempting to discuss another offer since it makes the message very clear and it's not just that you're hyping yourself up.


You can always leave if you want. You don’t have to accept a smaller raise quietly. If you threaten them to leave it may ruin the working relationship, may cause them to think to start looking elsewhere for a mew employee etc

If you do have a better offer why not just take it?
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 7:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Good points, I appreciate you taking the time to list these. The dilemma is that when asking for a raise, they may just give a bit to satisfy your asking and they'll expect you to just take it and be quiet. When you show that your value has increased and other places are offering a specific amount, it puts more pressure for them to take you seriously and consider a higher salary than they would've orginially been ok to offer. It's very tempting to discuss another offer since it makes the message very clear and it's not just that you're hyping yourself up.


Would you actually leave if they don’t match it?

Why can’t you counter their offer by saying you were really hoping for a larger raise based on your value to the company and all around inflation and increase in costs…

I can’t see how another offer would help you. If your employee can’t give the amount you want they won’t regardless. And if they don’t want to give it they’ll just get a bad feeling from the conversation. You never want to come across as greedy- just valuable.
The more workable you are, the more flexible you are that helps your value.

If you really would leave if they don’t match it then maybe consider it, but what will happen the next time you want a significant raise?

No one is irreplaceable. Yes it’s a very difficult market now to find employees and most employers will do what they can to retain their valuable employees but it has to make sense.

My husband has employees and he will do whatever he can to keep them happy within a normal range.
I know my employer values me and that’s all I will bring up.

You want to push your value to them- not your value to other companies. They won’t care about that b
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amother
Glitter


 

Post Sun, Oct 03 2021, 7:49 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Good points, I appreciate you taking the time to list these. The dilemma is that when asking for a raise, they may just give a bit to satisfy your asking and they'll expect you to just take it and be quiet. When you show that your value has increased and other places are offering a specific amount, it puts more pressure for them to take you seriously and consider a higher salary than they would've orginially been ok to offer. It's very tempting to discuss another offer since it makes the message very clear and it's not just that you're hyping yourself up.


You don't need to lay all your cards on the table at once. That leaves you with no recourse. Amother tangerine makes great points. If it is as you say, that you're a valued employee, then you just may be surprised what they will offer to keep you happy. What have you got to lose by throwing the ball first in their court, and see what kind of offer they come up with? You can always play another card at a follow-up or later date. You had mentioned that you were worried that they'll think less of you if you mention another offer. If you come in with an attitude of trying to strong-arm them instead of starting off in a low key negotiation, it has a much greater chance of fulfilling your worries. Take it step by step.

Also, I don't think "they expect you to just take it and be quiet" is a correct assessment of the working world. Salaries and raises are negotiations. It is expected from both parties.
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