One more frum attempt before jumping ship? (EDIT: books!!!)

Kiwi13

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 4:54 pm

amother [ Buttercup ] wrote:

Ok, so there is intimate build up and flirting you just aren't going to stoop to the level where you write out explicit zex scenes. sounds like it would perfectly for secular middle grade

Themes go beyond MG. It's solidly in YA territory.

amother

Buttercup

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:05 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

Themes go beyond MG. It's solidly in YA territory.

Then you're stuck. What were Maze Runner, Hunger games, Uglies, were those all MG or YA? How much explicit content was involved? Not too much but I don't really remember.
The issue I see here is that you're writing a love story but don't want to get explicit, that can technically work, but not for an adult audience. If you have some amazing writing coupled with an amazing plot and enough going on that people don't get furious that the couple never explicitly crosses your line this can work. Make a line for yourself- and don't cross that line. Write the book with enough tension and buildup that words suffice instead of actions (re the love story part).

amother

Gold

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:11 pm

amother [ Buttercup ] wrote:

Good advice.
It's an older book, but I think Exiles of Crocodile Island is a really good example of how to handle frum teen romantic themes . Have you ever read it, Kiwi? It's historical not contemporary though, so the teen romances could end in marriage which made it ok.

amother

Garnet

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:28 pm

TBH I can't really see a frum publisher going with it, however clean it is. Does sound a little too out there for a jewish publisher. Although I would have loved to read such a book when I was a teen. I would suggest considering the indie route as it gives you the most ownership over your book. If you go jewish, you'll have to tone it down, if you go to a non-jewish publishers, you'll have to spice it up. It depends on what you want out of the book. If you care more about preserving your ideals of the book, rather than fame and lots of books sold.
But I'm looking forward to hearing more about the book. Would love more jewish fantasy.

Kiwi13

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:29 pm

amother [ Buttercup ] wrote:

The love story is almost secondary to the journey they go on individually and together.

You're right that it might not make it far in the secular world. I still think it's an interesting enough story to write. I have hope other people might think so too.

Kiwi13

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:30 pm

amother [ Garnet ] wrote:

Thanks! I'm not planning on even pitching this to Jewish publishers. It doesn't belong, I'm not THAT clueless. ;-)

PinkFridge

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:37 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

I think there isn't much of a market for frum YA....most books/stories are geared to younger readers or middle grade then skip to adult. Books that are marketed for frum teens are really geared for 10-12 imo.

Yes. And I think there's a great market out there for writers to fill. Teen books that aren't so dark.

PinkFridge

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:38 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

Check out the frum books labeled for teens and you will see what I mean. They are not on a teen level, they are middle school, tops.
BTW this mirrors a lot of what happened with the secular YA market. It didn't exist till the 70s really (its heyday was in the 80s and 90s). Before that, it was all middle grade with a few girls series that mainly appealed to preteens. I think it was the book The Outsiders that crashed the door open and made publishers and writers realize there was a market. There are a lot of interesting journal articles and even books that chronicle this. Arguably, the secular YA market is getting smaller and smaller and is on the verge of disappearing. You can Google this, it's a fun rabbit hole to go down, lol.

So interesting that they're saying the secular YA market is disappearing. When I have time I will google.

Kiwi13

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:42 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

So interesting that they're saying the secular YA market is disappearing. When I have time I will google.

YA has been shifting for years. There are two camps: Those who want it edgier, to account for the 50% of YA readers over 18, and those who want to keep it more wholesome and dealing with gentler topics, since adults have plenty of books all their own.

YA is not disappearing, it's just adjusting to new market trends.

PinkFridge

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:48 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

The wholesome is plain J fiction. I assumed YA is simply now officially edgy. For the senior high kids.

amother

Gold

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:54 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

So interesting that they're saying the secular YA market is disappearing. When I have time I will google.

Unfortunately I don't remember the title or author but I read a fascinating book a few months ago, which basically went through the chronology of YA lit. Something like "paperback swap" or similar. It explained how things evolved from malt shop books of the 50s and 60s to gritty realistic books of the 70s to fluffy and girly in the 80s (a ton of now famous authors, even adult fiction writers, got their start ghostwriting Sweet Valley High and similar series) back to grit lit for the 90s, and, nowadays, less realism and more dystopian, vampire, fantasy, etc.
You can't begin to compare the YA market/output to the 80s and 90s--that truly was the golden age. The number of shelves in the library and bookstores have dwindled, for sure.

Simple1

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 5:57 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

So I think there is opportunity there. My teens do complain the books are either too adult or too babyish. Adult meaning they're not so interested in shalom bayis, shidduch, and parenting issues etc, but may like a good adventure novel.

amother

Gold

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 6:05 pm

Simple1 wrote:

The question is whether the publishers are willing to give it a try. The frum market is fairly small and teen books are such a small niche of that. It makes sense that they'd invest more in adult books simply because those have a bigger audience. Also, when you get into teen books, it gets divided into those that appeal to boys/girls which splits it even more (generally girls will read typical boys books, but not vice versa).

Goldie613

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 8:45 pm

I would say try to find a publisher who deals with kids books - maybe a junior high age group? They may go for slightly edgy but not want the explicit scenes. LOL, Harry Potter clearly made it :-)

Also, as someone else already mentioned, there are publishers that specifically publish novels for Christian groups that aren't explicit - in a pinch that might be something to try. That or self-publishing...

Can you look for books of a similar type to yours and see who published them, and then approach that publisher?

Good luck!

amother

NeonPink

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 9:19 pm

selfishly, I want to have more YA books for my kids that I'm comfortable with them reading. Most of what I see at the public library on the YA shelf is inappropriate, and I'm sheltering my advanced readers (and all my kids lol!).

If you publish independently for the kosher consumer Wink

please let us know!

4pom

Sun, Oct 03 2021, 9:56 pm

I think you can definitely write for the frum world. Maybe not this novel but another. Over Yom tov I ran out of reading material and read two frum novels at my relatives... They were so terrible... I cant imagine why they were published. There was no redeeming factor beyond a plot..... and excitement and surprise. The values and messages were plainly weird to me. One of them I can understand was published - the other was way more than a waste of time.
You definitely have what to contribute. Wish I would have noticed who the publishers were so I could tell you.

You can do it. Worth a try.

I looked up the publisher. Had never heard of it before. Feel free to ask me via pm

wordsmith

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 12:38 pm

YA is definitely NOT disappearing. It's a huge genre that's read by adults (many women read YA novels) and teens.

OP, have you written your book already or just deciding on whether or not to write it? Don't get bogged down in where will I market it once it's done. The market changes so quickly you won't be able to keep up. Finish your book, get it read by critique partners, rewrite it again, revise again, make it the best it can be and then see where you are at then.

BTW, I like your premise of the haunted house that shows teens their fears, it's a solid one for a YA, but the success is in the execution not the premise.

Good luck!

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 12:55 pm

wordsmith wrote:

Thank you! I’m midway through the writing. Fully outlined, several chapters into the manuscript itself. I think it’s got promise (obviously, not that I’m biased ;-)).

There’s some cool stuff on the sidelines of the story, and some subplots that push it all forward. I spent quite some time on the outline and making all the character arcs come together and get everything to line up. It’s got a (hopefully) interest-grabbing premise, but it’s inherently a character-driven story. Personally, those are the ones I like best, so that’s what I write. :-)