One more frum attempt before jumping ship? (EDIT: books!!!)

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 1:00 pm

To be super clear: I am NOT pitching the haunted house book to frum publishers. But, fun thing - I joined Twitter and posed the question of wholesome adult and YA fiction, and the responses EXPLODED in favor of yes!! Dozens of retweets and hundreds of comments and people encouraging me to write this book and get it out there. Evidently there’s been a growing demand for cleaner stuff (language, intimacy) especially in YA. Someone in the industry told me there’s been a strong and growing countermovement against books like 50 Shades…. Not just by the religious groups, but also mainstream parents and teachers and teens themselves (and adults who want cleaner books too!).

A librarian told me she speaks to countless people who want the angst and grit without the sx and cursing.

I’m very encouraged!!!!

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 1:04 pm

Only frustration I encountered so far was a handful of comments attacking wholesome books as white-centric, too hetero, and ableist.

To which I say, seriously????!!

Interesting what those posters think of the alternate lifestyles (and disabled crowd?!!!!) they’re claiming to support. But hey.

My response to them, in case you’re wondering, was that we all draw the line someplace. They might not agree with where I’m drawing it, but that’s why there are all kind of books and authors out there.

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 1:13 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

Seems that looking for "wholesome" while also yelling "too hetero" is a bit of a contradiction...

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 1:26 pm

amother [ Eggshell ] wrote:

Seems that looking for "wholesome" while also yelling "too hetero" is a bit of a contradiction...

I didn’t say it!!!

I was super clear that “wholesome” in my view means cleaner language and no explicit physical scenes. Someone in the comments claimed I was calling sx “immoral.” Uhhh NO. It’s all about when and where. (Not in YA, which is still classed as Children’s lit!)

I explained that, and also that the opposite of “wholesome” isn’t “immoral.”

And seriously what’s with the assumption that non-hetero characters are going to be cursing and doing the deed in a YA book? Definitely showing their own bias…

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 1:50 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

Yeah, I realized Smile

Just pointing out their hypocrisy.

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 3:35 pm

Yeah, so that part of the thread derailed and now I'm "racist."

Also sxist and ableist and ageist and whatever other -ists you wanna throw at me.

But I'm getting a LOT of attention and most of it is very positive! I hope this leads to connections that can help me DO it. I had 99 followers before this started. Now I have 803.

I don't think I've ever felt so popular. The internet is super strange.

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 3:48 pm

Never in my life did I think the word "wholesome" would offend so many people, wow wow wow. Somebody retweeted and called my post "creepy."

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 4:03 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

Never in my life did I think the word "wholesome" would offend so many people, wow wow wow. Somebody retweeted and called my post "creepy."

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

That's so ridiculous. But it's always a risk putting yourself out there...

chanatron1000

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 4:27 pm

It's Twitter. Tweet "The sky is such a lovely shade of blue today," and you'll get people accusing you of not wanting it to rain and not wanting crops to grow or for people to have access to drinkable water. Tweet "I love the rain," and you'll be accused of wanting homes to flood and people to drown. Also, your opinion is automatically racist.

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 4:51 pm

I'm genuinely shocked. How in the world did things get this bad? The tides have turned for the ugly and I feel full-on attacked by the twitter crowd. Because I used the word "wholesome" in the context of limiting profanity and avoiding explicit sx scenes in YA literature. I'm creepy and immoral and racist and on and on and it keeps piling through. What happened to our world? I'm so sad.

And ridiculously having to fight feelings of guilt over offending so many people. I was even accused of being an irresponsible writer for choosing my words poorly (ie. "wholesome" in the context of what I wrote above).

It hurts.

chanatron1000

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 4:54 pm

In a world with billions of people, only a small percentage have a compulsive need to twist people's words and attack them with baseless accusations. But they are all on Twitter.

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 5:12 pm

I blocked a bunch of people. I'm not cut out for this kind of hate.

The frum market might be restrictive, but one day of exposure to the (sick! sick! sick!) secular heinousness has me rethinking legit everything. Right now I want to crawl into a little corner of Meah Shearim and stay there until the Twitter storm dies down. Ouch.

ora_43

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 5:26 pm

Don't mistake Twitter trolls for public opinion! Twitter is full of people who basically exist to call things sexist and ableist and heteronormative. But those people are like 1% of 1% of society, and 0% of the interesting, well-informed people you should be listening to.

The 90% who would love to see more wholesome YA books making a comeback are the ones to focus on.

For now, though, I'd just focus on 1-2 people whose opinions you value. Sometimes it's easier to remember the worth of the people around you, than yourself. Like - I might be tempted to think that I suck, in the face of Internet Rage, but then I look at the people who inspire me and think, like, 'wait, they're not just saying I'm evil, they're saying my friend E is evil. Pffft. No way.'

(FWIW my personal experience is that preteens and teens gravitate davka toward the 'cleaner' stuff)

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 5:32 pm

And now...

I'm pro-torture of the disabled.

I'm a white supremacist.

I'm a Chr-stian fundamentalist (!!)

I hate autistic people.

Racist.

Ageist.

Bigoted.

I also abuse my children and would abuse yours too if given the chance.

Twitter is wild. I blocked these idiots, but what the actual heck is wrong with the world??!!

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 6:01 pm

Update: Tonight I'm dedicating some time to my new idea for the frum market.

I'm also shifting gears on my YA approach and will probably go indie on it. Who knows, maybe I can put out a bunch of things that will interest some of the frum market, even without the haskama of a frum publisher. You never know.

If this is what's out there, I'm not cut out for it. It's horrible.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 6:01 pm

Hi,
I feel for you, I'm also a fellow author. My protagonist is from a different background than me so I was looking for a beta reader at some point. Somehow one person imagined that I was writing a racist book slandering people from that background. It's literally the opposite but some people can twist things out of nothing. To make it better, she never read anything I had written and she was not from that background. Finally I decided to ignore her and just keep working on my novel. Once it's done I'll make sure to consult people who are from that background. honestly, it's better to stay away from twitter for now. Just write your story and finish it.

Kiwi13

Mon, Oct 04 2021, 6:06 pm

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

You can't win. If you write a character from a different background, you have no right and you'll portray them wrong (as if every person of a group is the same). And if you DON'T have enough characters from all the different "important" groups, you obviously hate them and wish you could write them out of the real world too.

I'm overwhelmed, if you couldn't already tell. It feels so pointless to keep trying.