Losing friendships and social life because of vax status?

#BestBubby

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 10:09 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

But why should I, as a vaccinated person, be forced to curtail my activities in deference to unvaccinated, while unvaccinated are not obligated to do anything at all?

Why am I not entitled to attend a minyan that is labeled "vaccinated only, masks required" and be assured that people will comply?

Why should I not be entitled to tell unvaccinated people that I'm sorry that they can't attend my simcha? (If there's food, they're taking masks off, obviously.) Or, conversely, be forced not to have a simcha in deference to the unvaccinated. [If there were a simcha without a vaccine reqiurement, I would politely say mazel tov, I'm unable to attend. Why am I not entitled to equal courtesy on the other side?]

Once again, why are only the concerns of the unvaccinated deemed important?

Because People who Recovered from Covid have BETTER IMMUNITY then the Vaccinated!

Stop being a Natural Immunity Denier!

You are Anti-Science!

heidi

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 12:41 am

Wow, this thread makes me laugh.
Doctors overwhelmingly recommend vaccines. In Israel even those who had covid are urged to vaccinate at least one vaccine.
The vast majority of Israelis have followed this advice, regardless of political or religious leanings.
So I choose to associate with those who follow medical guidelines.
And I have no sympathy for those that don't take basic precautions to protect themselves and their loved ones from a potentially fatal disease.
I think the whole world is in crisis and everyone is doing the best they can with the information they have. I don't think doctors are infallible but they are certainly more equipped to issue medical recommendation than most people on this site
OP, I doubt Israel is the place for your unvaccinated husband.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 1:33 am

heidi wrote:

Wow, this thread makes me laugh.
Doctors overwhelmingly recommend vaccines. In Israel even those who had covid are urged to vaccinate at least one vaccine.
The vast majority of Israelis have followed this advice, regardless of political or religious leanings.
So I choose to associate with those who follow medical guidelines.
And I have no sympathy for those that don't take basic precautions to protect themselves and their loved ones from a potentially fatal disease. I
I think the whole world is in crisis and everyone is doing the best they can with the information they have. I don't think doctors are infallible but they are certainly more equipped to issue medical recommendation than most people on this site
OP, I doubt Israel is the place for your unvaccinated husband.

So did I and everyone around me follow dr guidance and unfortunately they were WRONG. Look at whats going on now here in Israel. So many hospitalized. Its not just unvaccinated I know a few fully vaccinated in hospitals now. Most ppl I know in Israel are not taking the 3rd vaccine, because it doesn't seem to work. Pretty sad that it doesn't work. But thats just the fact Sad

amother

Brass

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 2:07 am

heidi wrote:

So do you feel differently about those who do not vaccinate based on their DOCTOR's advice?

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 2:34 am

I think a lot of people are missing the point of how vaccinated feel about unvaccinated people. It's about the attitude. There is no logic. The unvaccinated people that I know tell me things like Rav Chaim Kanievsky didn't say to get vaccinated, all animals the vaccines were tested on died, and covid is made up and a joke, and everyone really died in car accidents. They are not humbled by it. They are above rabbanim and say they don't believe in doctors. Yet they do seek medical help in a medical emergency. There is zero humility and zero recognition that actual people did die from it, and it could happen to anymore. So ultimately it is the attitude of these people, how flippant they are. Those attitudes have made me realize that I don't want to be associated with these people. On the other hand, I have an unvaccinated friend who speaks logically and I have no issue with her being unvaccinated. I cannot stand people who are holier than thou. And I too believe that people who deny covid and the seriousness of it, and therefore are unvaccinated, should not get medical treatment if they get ill from it. They had their chance at a preventative measure. Which no one says is 100%. And by the way, I know hundreds of people who have been infected with covid a second time. HUNDREDS. So anyone who says natural immunity is forever is simply wrong. BE HUMBLE. WE KNOW NOTHING. for all we know, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

amother

Brass

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 2:45 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Honestly, as an unvaccinated person, I'm with you.

But this has nothing to do with vaccination status. As you said yourself, it is the attitude. And unfortunately, we get that holier than thou / we know everything / denial attitude on both sides of the vaccination debate.

I don't deny covid, but am not sure that as a low risk person, the risk of the vaccine is right for me, especially with the treatments available. I may have already had covid, and all family members who had it were fine (I see that there seems to be a strong genetic component as to how severely it presents). We follow guidelines and are not cavalier about the seriousness of the disease.

Do I know if I'm right? No, neither do you. I'm doing my best. So are you.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 5:30 am

I hear what you're saying and obviously we have to respect each other, and I don't know where you live, but here in Israel all the big chareidi rabbanim say to vaccinate. And when people have spent years bragging about how frum they are, and follow rabbanim, and being so frum, then it blows my mind that they don't follow gedolim because "they don't trust doctors". It's weird. That's where I lose respect. But again, it's an attitude. It's hypocritical and mind blowing. As someone who is vaccinated, I will never say that I know better, in fact, I literally don't know, which is why I spoke to doctors I trust (many!), did tons of research, and listened to rabbanim. I'm doing my hishtadlus. I don't understand how people can live their lives talking about all their chumras, using the medical system, and then to say, no, everyone's a liar.

amother

Crocus

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 7:10 am

amother [ Sand ] wrote:

I understand why they're so vulnerable. I don't understand what the issue is if they're properly masked up and social distance. Either masks protect or they don't.

This shows a huge lack of medical/scientific knowledge when it comes to immunocompromised people, specifically organ transplant recipients. Do a bit of research if you really want to understand.
I am talking about someone who, previously before covid, couldn't even be in close proximity to someone with a little sniffle or sore throat. If his own children had a sore throat or cold he had to stay away from them.
Plus if you read any of my posts carefully you'd see the problem was that people at the wedding weren't all masking as they had been asked to. The problem is that plenty of people just don't care enough, because it's inconvenient for them. As a guest, if the host asks you to mask or take other precautions due to another vulnerable guest it's really sad that people just ignore it. How is it different than ignoring a no peanut rule while bring in close contact to a severely allergic person. Somehow most people understand they need to follow the precautions in a case like that and don't blame the allergic person for inconveniencing them.

amother

Burntblack

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 7:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Curious if anyone else is being impacted in the same way.

Basically in our community everyone (eligible) is vaxxed, not everyone in my immediate family is.
We are not welcome to any of our pre-covid social groups get togethers, shabbos meals, parties etc. Outdoors and distanced is still ok but a hassle when you have a baby/small kids

I’m beside myself. I’m vaccinated myself but cannot dictate to other adults in family to do it so we are stuck.
Can anyone relate?

We would not invite someone not vaccinated either.

to me that person is willing to be a carrier of a terrible illness, and I am upset at lack of responsibility. almost like a rotzeach

My Rabbonim also urge all to stop death and vaccinate

why cant you see our side?

I wouldnt call it Sinas Chinam

1. its not chinam
2. its not about sina

its protecting our families.

I mimimize social interaction and choose my friends carefully these days.

gold21

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 8:28 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I agree that there is sometimes a certain attitude amongst some anti-covid-vaxx that is insensitive & upsetting. They will say things like "Trust your immune system", "It's just the flu", "The real virus is the media", etc, completely ignoring the realities of covid, ignoring the suffering many have experienced with covid & the loved ones lost to covid, and yes, I find that cavalier attitude very simplistic, thoughtless and off-putting.

HOWEVER, I think the majority of anti-covid-vaxx are NOT that way. They are questioning things and have legitimate concerns. They are educated on the issues. Often, they have antibodies (which would get them a Green Pass on Israel, by the way).

It's likely just a small, and vocal, percentage of those who are covid-vaccine hesitant who make inane comments, that you have encountered, that you refer to in your post.

Unfortunately there can be a lack of seichel on both sides of this issue, and I find it very disheartening. There are completely ridiculous comments coming from both sides.

(I think the anti-ivermectin ("horse dewormer') crowd wins the prize for uneducated comments. Lol.)

Last edited by gold21 on Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:03 am; edited 3 times in total

southernbubby

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 8:37 am

gold21 wrote:

I agree that there is sometimes a certain attitude amongst anti-covid-vaxx that is insensitive & upsetting. They will say things like "Trust your immune system", "It's just the flu", "The real virus is the media", etc, completely ignoring the realities of covid, ignoring the suffering many have experienced with covid & the loved ones lost to covid, and yes, I find that cavalier attitude very simplistic, thoughtless and off-putting.

Unfortunately there can be a lack of seichel on both sides of this issue, and I find it very disheartening.

However, I think the majority of anti-covid-vaxx are NOT that way. It's likely just a small, and vocal, percentage of those who are covid-vaccine hesitant.

The only really strong antivaxer that I have met in Coral Springs was crippled by the virus itself and she uses black market ivermectin to conquer it and she is upset that the medicine is so hard to obtain and blames it on the push to vaccinate. She uses a walker but she can't work.