I'm yekkish AMA | Imamother

amother

Mintcream

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 1:37 am

amother [ Azalea ] wrote:

Why are you so proud of being German descent? I don’t see what there is to be proud of after the Holocaust. Why is it considered good to behave with German manners such as being on time. I’ve always wondered this but would never ask someone in real life. I really just don’t get it at all.

Being on time is good manners and respectful behavior.

amother

Forsythia

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 8:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

also, part of derech eretz for us is knowing german. both my husband and I speak it. he a lot better than me.

Respectfully, this is something I don't understand. Obviously, the intent was to speak the language of the land. Insisting on knowing how to speak German in other countries sounds similar to Chassidim insisting on using Yiddish. (Not that it's a bad thing in either case, just doesn't align with the German school of thought, IMO.)

amother

Forsythia

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:09 am

flowerpower wrote:

Do you cut your boys hair before age three?

I find it more interesting that many (non-Yekkes) don't, when they're also not Chassidish (and not in EY). It wasn't a mainstream minhag, but seems to have spread like wildfire.

We cut our boys' hair, and then they're mistaken for 3. But maybe that's better than being mistaken for a girl. What

amother

Forsythia

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:16 am

amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:

The Sfas Emes siddur is the Rödelheim. Sfas Emes is its official name.

But does anyone actually call it by its name? Wink

amother

Forsythia

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:24 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

The one here: http://www.kolang.org/en/teach/2604
We use the Rosenblatt shir hamaalos for regular Shabbos.

For those of you who think we are crazy, here is the academic version: https://www.jewish-music.huji......22133

The first link seems to be the "regular" tune Scratching Head

The second link has the Sukkos tune (not Shmini Atzeres), but was an enjoyable read/listen, so thanks for the link! (Do wish it had more samples!) Interestingly, I only remember hearing the first part of that tune (and not the Haloch Yelech or Hodu part), so that was informative. And it was one of the monotonous tunes.

amother

Forsythia

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:29 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

If women and men daven in Shul on Shabbos, what kind of Mechitza is there. In our Shul there are 2 floors women upstairs and men downstairs.

It's my understanding that a balcony is preferable to a mechitza. Mechitzas were kind of like gateway drugs, by enabling changes to them (shorter, movable, etc.) until they disappeared Reform-style. The idea wasnt to make women totally invisible or prevent them from seeing what was going on. The balcony let them see everything while also being suitably separated. And it's on the men not to allow themselves to get distracted by what's behind (and above) them.

amother

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:38 am

amother [ Azalea ] wrote:

I'll tell you why I'm proud of my German heritage.
I will answer for myself and only myself. I am not speaking fo any other yekke except those in my family, and my husband, who are all also very proud of their German and Jewish heritage.

Back in the days, I'm talking my grandparents time, who were born at the turn of the century (All between 1900 and 1910), life in big cities in Germany for Jews was full of challenges but also very fulfilling for intellectuals.
Unlike the Galitzianer, Underlandish, Slavic, or Balkan Jews, who sometimes (not always,but sometimes) lived in small towns, very far away from the majority of non-jews, and lived a mostly agricultural life, Jews in Germany were very much a part of society. Jews in Germany, even frum Jews I might add, were a part of all German institutions. In all big cities, there were Frum Jews in Academia, Government, Science, the arts, there were Jews everywhere. We were very much a part of German society. Which is why ultimately a small, but growing, number of Germans grew to resent us, and what happened happened, but that's another story.
Jews were recognized by about half to most Germans as equal, and were living very fulfilling lives.
Our minhagim are some of the oldest in all Jewry. Yiddish is derived from Old German. Those who speak German today... We speak one of the oldest languages in Europe.
Germany introduced so many concepts to the world. Many revolutionary ideas, that make life easier today, come from Germany. And many of those ideas came from Jews.
I did my family tree. Thanks to the spectacular organization of German bureaucracy, I was able to trace back my Jewish ancestors all the way to the 1400s.
And finally, My grandfather, a frum man, who had a beard and davened in a minyan everyday, was also an engineer in Berlin. He was so enamored with his city, his heritage, that he spent the rest of his life mourning Germany. He left in 1941 (literally the latest possible), and even after the horrors that happened and the family he lost, he still only had good things to say about life in Germany before the war.
I'm not proud of the Germany of today. Between the Reich, then the DDE, and the government now, I will say that Germany has not been a good place since 1933.
But there was a ridiculous amount of good life and thriving Yiddishkeit in Germany before 1933. So I'm proud my ancestors belonged to that.

So that's my answer to your question. This is how I feel and it's not up for debate.
But I hope that answers your question, even if you may not understand.

gold21

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 1:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'll tell you why I'm proud of my German heritage.
I will answer for myself and only myself. I am not speaking fo any other yekke except those in my family, and my husband, who are all also very proud of their German and Jewish heritage. No

Back in the days, I'm talking my grandparents time, who were born at the turn of the century (All between 1900 and 1910), life in big cities in Germany for Jews was full of challenges but also very fulfilling for intellectuals.
Unlike the Galitzianer, Underlandish, Slavic, or Balkan Jews, who sometimes (not always,but sometimes) lived in small towns, very far away from the majority of non-jews, and lived a mostly agricultural life, Jews in Germany were very much a part of society. Jews in Germany, even frum Jews I might add, were a part of all German institutions. In all big cities, there were Frum Jews in Academia, Government, Science, the arts, there were Jews everywhere. We were very much a part of German society. Which is why ultimately a small, but growing, number of Germans grew to resent us, and what happened happened, but that's another story.
Jews were recognized by about half to most Germans as equal, and were living very fulfilling lives.
Our minhagim are some of the oldest in all Jewry. Yiddish is derived from Old German. Those who speak German today... We speak one of the oldest languages in Europe.
Germany introduced so many concepts to the world. Many revolutionary ideas, that make life easier today, come from Germany. And many of those ideas came from Jews.
I did my family tree. Thanks to the spectacular organization of German bureaucracy, I was able to trace back my Jewish ancestors all the way to the 1400s.
And finally, My grandfather, a frum man, who had a beard and davened in a minyan everyday, was also an engineer in Berlin. He was so enamored with his city, his heritage, that he spent the rest of his life mourning Germany. He left in 1941 (literally the latest possible), and even after the horrors that happened and the family he lost, he still only had good things to say about life in Germany before the war.
I'm not proud of the Germany of today. Between the Reich, then the DDE, and the government now, I will say that Germany has not been a good place since 1933.
But there was a ridiculous amount of good life and thriving Yiddishkeit in Germany before 1933. So I'm proud my ancestors belonged to that.

So that's my answer to your question. This is how I feel and it's not up for debate.
But I hope that answers your question, even if you may not understand.

My children are 75 percent German and 25 percent Eastern European (pre-war Checkoslavakia). So 3 sets of grandparents are German and one set is not. I'd like to think they are just as proud of their Eastern European heritage as they are of their German heritage. For me, it's not the culture at all, just the heritage. Just speaking for myself. I am not invested in German culture.

(We may be different generations.)

The same way I can never look at Spain in a good light (Inquisition) I don't think I will ever look at Germany in a good light. That is how I feel.

With that said, the Jewish German minhagim and traditions are very beautiful, and they go back many many generations. They were around before many of the newer minhagim came about. They are one of the oldest set of minhagim in the Jewish world. So there is a lot of authenticity in these minhagim, and that is very valuable. These ancient Jewish traditions likely were around before modern-day (20th century) German culture & behavioral patterns were formed.

So what I'm saying here is, you can keep your minhagim even if you are not invested in the German culture. You don't have to be a timely person to have your children bring a wimpel. You don't have to be a frugal person to have your husband and sons wear tall white yarmelkas to shul on the Yomim Noraim. Even if you are a warm emotional person, you can still daven from a Rodelheim siddur. You have my permission. No rigidity required to sing the special Yekke tunes.

Yeah, so there is no cultural requirement to keep these very rich minhagim.

I think that there are a few things that I would like to pass on to my children from the German culture. Firstly, the simplicity, the complete lack of ostentatiousness. It's kind of unparalleled in the Jewish world, in my opinion. And secondly, the way Torah and Derech Eretz can coexist. I don't fully relate to yeshivish culture or to Modern Orthodox culture, so hashkafically I think it's probably Torah Im Derech Eretz ideology that suits me best.

But Germany as a country & culture... That's a NO from me.

amother

Quince

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 9:26 am

gold21 wrote:

Firstly, the simplicity, the complete lack of ostentatiousness. It's kind of unparalleled in the Jewish world, in my opinion. And secondly, the way Torah and Derech Eretz can coexist. I don't fully relate to yeshivish culture or to Modern Orthodox culture, so hashkafically I think it's probably Torah Im Derech Eretz ideology that suits me best.
.

I'm nowhere near yekke ancestry but this speaks to me as well
I'd love to read up more about it
Any biogrophies or sources where I can learn more?

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 11:04 pm

amother White wrote:

Second link not working Crying

Anyone have a link to shir hamaalos sukkos version?? I cannot find it and I forgot the tune

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 11:27 pm

https://www.kajinc.org/shir-ha.....hnerb

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 11:47 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

https://www.kajinc.org/shir-hamaalos-mr.-walter-schnerb

Thank you!!!

amother

Forsythia

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 11:55 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

https://www.kajinc.org/shir-hamaalos-mr.-walter-schnerb

Disclaimer: of all yekkish tunes that I'm familiar with, this is probably my least favorite. Just very repetitive, not very exciting IMHO.

amother

Kiwi

Fri, Oct 14 2022, 2:33 am

Please help! My husband is a BT and a yekke. (My minhagim are not yekkish ones but I love the yekkish ones and want to keep minhagim! I think it is Good for kids to have minhagim). Unfortunately no one in the family knows certain minhagim and the Rav he asked his minhagim questions is not able to answer unfortunately due to illness. We are not in a yekkish shul either.
What gets written on the wimpel? We have the cloth from my son's bris. It's a bit past age 3 but we lost the page we wrote what to write on it... I sew so was going to try some needlepoint or something.

Also, we were told by the Rav that Tallis was 9 or Bar Mitzvah, not age 4. Could it be based on the city? I know each city was slightly different in some minhagim. No one here does it before wedding. Should we wait until my son can daven in a shul? I didn't want to get it for him if he is in shul groups or playing. I know, not a yekkish thing to have kids playing like that.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Oct 14 2022, 2:45 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Also, we were told by the Rav that Tallis was 9 or Bar Mitzvah, not age 4. Could it be based on the city? I know each city was slightly different in some minhagim. No one here does it before wedding. Should we wait until my son can daven in a shul? I didn't want to get it for him if he is in shul groups or playing. I know, not a yekkish thing to have kids playing like that.

The thing with the tallis is that once they start wearing it, it is a real halachic issue to stop. So you want to be very sure they are going to continue before starting. If socially it is not the "done thing" where you live and your family are not strong into minhagim (which can give a child the koach to be proud of doing things differently), you need to think this through very carefully.

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Oct 14 2022, 2:45 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Not a yekke, but this is a question for a rav (not necessarily yekkish if not available ) and your school. A rav will be sensitive to your mesorah even if it is not his. Your school will tell you how it will work practically.

I will tell you that my sons (Lakewood schools) have many yekkes and sefardim that proudly wear talleisim from whatever age they start in school and our local shuls. You see these little boys carrying tallis bags to the bus!

amother

Kiwi

Fri, Oct 14 2022, 9:15 am

amother Pearl wrote:

Right. I guess I was asking if different areas did it differently. The yekkehs (rare) and sefardim at my kids school and that I have seen locally do it at Bar Mitzvah or when they start davening in the shul.

amother

Fri, Oct 14 2022, 11:10 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Hi! My husband and I actually have helped a handful of yekkish BT over the years reconnect to their minhagim. We are a dying breed, much faster than any other mesorah who didn't have a high survival rate, so literally ANY yekke would be happy to help you.
First recommendation is to find out what city your husband's paternal family is from. That will give you the direction for which minhagim to follow.
Then contact any rav in a yekkish hub (washington heights, antwerp, ashdod) or ask your rav if he knows any yekkish rav.
They'll be able to guide you and help your husband reconnect with what the men in his family had been doing for generations before the war.
Fun story, we had a BT walk into Breuer once, and walk out with a different siddur, different haircut, and different tallis. Yekkes dont waste time LOL

amother

Violet

Fri, Oct 14 2022, 12:31 pm

I love this thread. Keep smiling ☺
I grew up jekkish.
My father a true jekke, still davens 'au'

Do you daven 'Au'?
Make kiddush by shaleshudes?

And I love the Jahreskaddish too.....

amother

Slateblue

Sat, Oct 15 2022, 4:54 pm

In our Shul, the Yahres Kaddish is sung every Simchas Torah.

We also have a book which the founding Rov instigated and everything that happens in the Shul many many decades later still goes by this book.

We do not make Kiddush at Shalosh seudos. We also do not wash before kiddush but my brother does wash before kiddush and then goes on to make Motzei without a gap.

We also sing Shir Hamalos every Motzei Shabbos.

I bensh my children and Bli Ayin Horah my grandchildren as well.

Anything else you want to know.