Have attitudes towards non vaxxers changed since 2018?

southernbubby

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Not all nonvaxxers use divisive language. Can you sympathize with their cause even if you don’t like their vocabulary?

Not all vaxers say "covidiot" but yes, I don't know the long term health effects from the vaccine so I can sympathize. OTOH, my friend lingered for weeks before dying of Covid and possibly the vaccine could have saved her but her kids are anti-vax and she didn't want the vaccine. We will never know if she would still be here if she would have taken it

amother

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:18 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I am not excited to give the Covid vaccine to children and I feel that the vaccine schedule for children needs an overhaul. I also disagree with mandates because it will probably result in worker shortages. At the same time, hospitals are overwhelmed with Covid patients or at least they claim that they are so there has to be a reasonable solution to that. Yes, I realize that there are people who figure that ivermectin will save the day and I am skeptical about that but it may be worth trying where there is no better solution.
I would agree that we should have protected religious freedom, even though I don't view it as part of Judaism not to vaccinate.

Fair enough.

amother

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:20 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Sorry about your friend! Yes, we will never know, that’s what makes it so hard! We all wish we had a crystal ball. But knowing we all make the best decisions we could with the information we have makes us more tolerant humans.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:37 pm

amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote:

I love how people think that the pharmaceutical industry and CDC suddenly woke up and became unethical in 2020. Confused

Right.
It’s amazing how naive soooooooooo many people were. Like a herd of sheep blindly trusting doctors and governments like they are their personal Papa and Mama.
News flash: Never trust anyone. Do your own research.
IMO, One of the positive things that was gained through Covid is that people stopped blindly trusting the heath care system and learned to be educated consumers.

I do vaccinate, but not all vaccines. And even those that I do give I asked questions and did research on, I never gave something only because uncle doctor said that I should. And I see that since Covid, I’m not from that minority anymore.
The whole world got a very rude awakening.

amother

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:39 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

I’dlove to see more proof of that regarding other areas of medicine. Not just covid. That why I’m asking on here. To see if posters who used to be big believers have changed their stance at all. Or covid is an isolated, exceptional phenomenon.

#BestBubby

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:41 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

Especially since Government controls how doctors treat patients.

Doctors are afraid to say what their real opinion is.

(Those doctors who can critically think. Most doctors don't dare think.)

southernbubby

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:49 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you can get the latest N'shei Chabad Newsletter, there is an article about how Miriam Adahan nearly had surgery for Crohn's disease and was so upset that she went to the health food store that she thought was for kooks and tearfully asked for advice. They sent her to a doctor who cured her through diet which angered her surgeon but today lots of people use a dietary approach and it has become more mainstream.

southernbubby

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:53 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Especially since Government controls how doctors treat patients.

Doctors are afraid to say what their real opinion is.

(Those doctors who can critically think. Most doctors don't dare think.)

About 10,000 doctors gathered recently in support of ivermectin instead of vaccines so I don't think that they are all of one mind.

HealthCoach

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:21 pm

Quote:

Are you sure about that? Did you research how many years other vaccines were trialed before they were rolled out and mandated? Did you read about how they did or didn’t follow up on them once they were being administered en masse?

And if indeed you’re right about it, to what do you attribute this sudden change in policy? Why suddenly is the covid vaccine being subjected to such drastically different policies than all other vaccines?

There was a vaccine that was launched in the 70’s I believe. The vaccine program was halted when 186 people died from the vaccine. I would have to rewatch Tucker Carleson to verify dates and exact number, but it is approximately correct. At the time it was halted it was feared that we were in a pandemic. Actually I believe the date and number are correct.

I looked into the polio vaccine rollout. Apparently it was like this rollout and there were multiple brands of vaccine, and they were unhappy with how it was rolled out and vowed not to do again. Some brands had people die and were taken off market. You can google it.

gold21

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:34 pm

For me, it's complicated.

People who are anti-covid-vaxx who say things like "I trust my immune system" and "The human body was created to fight off viruses", "Covid is just the flu", "Nobody died of covid, they died of neglect" come across as privileged and insensitive to others. They insist that covid is no big deal and that everyone has the capacity to fight it off easily. Just eat healthy and exercise. It's no biggie. Shrug.

The cavalier attitude doesn't sit well with me.

Instead, I relate to anti-covid-vaxx people who say things like "I'm concerned about the risks of this vaccine", "I am not comfortable with the new technology being used in these vaccines", "I don't trust the agencies that are regulating the vaccine", etc, who are coming from a place of concern and hesitation about the vaccine. They acknowledge that covid is real and carries some risks, but are also concerned about risks of the vaccine.

So, I would apply the same rule to "regular" anti-vaxxers. I am definitely now more understanding of those who have specific concerns about the vaccines, either specifically relating to their children, or general safety concern about vaccines. I am definitely more understanding of those who are distrustful of the CDC, the FDA, and Big Pharma. So in that way, yes, my views have changed.

However, those who insist that
measles/polio/insert-name-of-virus is no big deal and eating healthy is the best defense, nobody really died of these viruses anyway, everyone can just trust their immune systems to do its thing, and besides, viruses are good for you- I feel the same way about this as I did before. So in that way, my views haven't changed.

Last edited by gold21 on Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Kiwi13

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:38 pm

I'll be honest. I vehemently disagreed with the anti-vaxxers concerning the MMR, and I still do. But the COVID vaccine situation helped me understand them a little more from an emotional perspective and have more empathy for them.

MMR is not COVID vaccine, and my opinion on the MMR is unchanged. As for the anti-vaxxers themselves, I have more compassion.

southernbubby

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:43 pm

gold21 wrote:

For me, it's complicated.

People who are anti-covid-vaxx who say things like "I trust my immune system" and "The human body was created to fight off viruses", "Covid is just the flu", "Nobody died of covid, they died of neglect" come across as privileged and insensitive to others. They insist that covid is no big deal and that everyone has the capacity to fight it off easily. Just eat healthy and exercise. It's no biggie. Shrug. Yeah, I don't agree with that attitude at all.

Instead, I relate to anti-covid-vaxx people who say things like "I'm concerned about the risks of this vaccine", "I am not comfortable with the new technology being used in these vaccines", "I don't trust the agencies that are regulating the vaccine", etc, who are coming from a place of concern and hesitation about the vaccine.

So, I would apply the same rule to "regular" anti-vaxxers. I am definitely now more understanding of those who have specific concerns about the vaccines, either specifically relating to their children, or general safety concern about vaccines. I am definitely more understanding of those who distrust Big Pharma.

However, those who insist that
measles/polio/pertussis/insert-name-of-virus is no big deal and eating healthy is the best defense, just let your immune system do its thing, viruses are good for you- I feel the same way about them them I did before. It's just wrong. Straight up.

I agree.
It does look, however, that in the absence of measles vaccines, preventing malnutrition usually prevents measles from being fatal and in places where most kids suffer from malnutrition, doctors apparently used high doses of IV vitamin A to save lives from measles. The upshot is that in the case of measles, nutrition does make a difference.

amother

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:47 pm

gold21 wrote:

Thanks for writing all that out. Very fair and understandable perspective.

amother

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:47 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

Makes sense.

gold21

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:08 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

Baaaaa.

The "you're all a bunch of sheep" attitude that I've encountered in many anti-vaxxers is another thing I take issue with. As I explained to an anti-vaxx acquaintance of mine (pre-covid), actually, I did do my research.... and guess what! I chose to vaccinate. Am I still a sheep? Is it possible for someone to do research and arrive at a different conclusion than you did? If you don't believe that other perspectives are valid, who's the sheep?

See, as I told my anti-vaxx acquaintance at the time, I had done my research and she had done hers. We simply arrived at different conclusions.

amother

Beige

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:33 pm

Mine didn't because although the first time I met a non vax family I thought they were outlandish, I watched someones children suffer side effects from vaccines since and see they are not good for everybody. And there is corruption in the name of "public good" at all levels, especially the history of pharma lawsuits. I do not understand why when guilty of such heinous crimes they get a small monetary fine is all.

When the government began interfering in doctors who would help vaccine side effect vulnerable families do alternative vaccine schedules or stop according to their needs, I started to support the lets call them underdogs.

I do not approve of calling people sheep or stupid or anything like that but strongly support and see the need for individualized medicine. And blaming everything under the sun solely on vaccines is ridiculous. Covid came after my opinion changed and the brazen open propoganda going on now has just made my opinion more set.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:33 pm

gold21 wrote:

Ok so you’re not a sheep and therefore no need to say baaaaaaa because that’s the sound sheep make lol

But I know plenty others who say “dunno, that’s what doctor said and doctor knows best”.
That is a dangerous attitude IMO.
Would you go to the bank and blindly do everything the bank manager says because he knows best? I also wouldn’t. It’s my money.

gold21

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:43 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

For sure.

gold21

Thu, Oct 07 2021, 11:45 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

I definitely agree that healthcare needs to be individualized. Very much agree! 💯