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Halloween Party WWYD? UPDATE!
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amother
Hyacinth


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:07 pm
Halloween is a PAGAN holiday it's worse than x-mas because it's sourced from mamaesh avodah Zara
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amother
Chestnut


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:11 pm
singleagain wrote:
This!

It's already hard to be the one leaving early in Friday and missing a whole month in September and April... Why make is harder

Besides, according to my best friend, (who's a practicing Baptist) Halloween isn't a religious holiday. Here is her quote that she said I should quote to imamother

"I mean, it started out as "All Hallows Eve" and was followed up with "All Saints Day," but that has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with superstition, nonsense, and a people who followed tradition and puritanical hype to a MacArthurian level of suspicion as opposed to reading and following their own scripture."

She also says there's nothing in the Christian Bible about Halloween and she's read it thrice.



And I bet, ppl don't even do it today bc of the pagan roots. They do it bc it's fun American culture.


Yes. A lot of these things function as team building activities and help employees bond. You don't need new best friends for outside work, but friends who have your back at work are important. It might help you find out important info, advance in your position, or just help to have someone to cover for you when you have to leave early for a Chag or something. I really would ask a rav before you throw it all out. In my non-Jewish workplace the Halloween stuff is not religious at all.
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amother
Geranium


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:13 pm
The seemingly “not religious at all” could then also be applied to Xmas work gatherings grab bags and the like - not worth it
Aylor
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:18 pm
I’d actually say that the event goes against my religious beliefs.

I’d want my workplace to know that they need to make events that aren’t holiday centered necessarily in the future.

I mean I wouldn’t tell them that outright, I’d simply say I can’t go for religious reasons but I wish everyone all the best and hope they enjoy.
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amother
Lightgreen


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:26 pm
singleagain wrote:


"I mean, it started out as "All Hallows Eve" and was followed up with "All Saints Day," but that has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with superstition, nonsense, and a people who followed tradition and puritanical hype to a MacArthurian level of suspicion as opposed to reading and following their own scripture."
.


This doesn’t say it isn’t a religious holiday, it just says it isn’t a Christian holiday
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:29 pm
amother [ Lightgreen ] wrote:
This doesn’t say it isn’t a religious holiday, it just says it isn’t a Christian holiday


Yes. Exactly. My Baptist friend told me there is no source in Christianity for it. It's not a thing that the pastor gives a sermon on.

She also said

And actually, the whole kids dressing up and getting candy as a modern practice was started by a lady trying to provide a constructive alternative to teenagers in her neighborhood getting into all kinds of vandalizing whatever shenanigans.)
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amother
Lightgreen


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:29 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
I’d actually say that the event goes against my religious beliefs.

I’d want my workplace to know that they need to make events that aren’t holiday centered necessarily in the future.

I mean I wouldn’t tell them that outright, I’d simply say I can’t go for religious reasons but I wish everyone all the best and hope they enjoy.


Your last line is better than the first. Telling your work that something they’re doing “goes against my religious beliefs” sounds like you’re one step away from suing them for discrimination. It’s very adversarial
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amother
Lightgreen


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:30 pm
singleagain wrote:
Yes. Exactly. My Baptist friend told me there is no source in Christianity for it. It's not a thing that the pastor gives a sermon on.

She also said

And actually, the whole kids dressing up and getting candy as a modern practice was started by a lady trying to provide a constructive alternative to teenagers in her neighborhood getting into all kinds of vandalizing whatever shenanigans.)


Okay, but Christianity is not the only other religion that we don’t want to emulate
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:31 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
I’d actually say that the event goes against my religious beliefs.

I’d want my workplace to know that they need to make events that aren’t holiday centered necessarily in the future.


You can't really expect that from a secular workplace, and I don’t think it's wise. You will end up with coworkers annoyed at you for ruining their holiday fun, or else not understanding why you can't participate if they make it multi cultural and add in a Hanukkah game. It's only going to open a can of worms.
As long as they are OK with you abstaining, that's really the most important.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:32 pm
amother [ Lightgreen ] wrote:
Your last line is better than the first. Telling your work that something they’re doing “goes against my religious beliefs” sounds like you’re one step away from suing them for discrimination. It’s very adversarial


Oh sheesh. American is way to PC thee days. I’m not sure it’s illegal to have a work party that goes against ones religious beliefs. It’s not mandatory to come.

But sure OP go with the second wording I chose. Sounds like all the same thing to me. Of course I’d elaborate and say that I hope everyone else enjoys etc and I hope to join future events and make it sound nice.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:34 pm
amother [ Ebony ] wrote:
You can't really expect that from a secular workplace, and I don’t think it's wise. You will end up with coworkers annoyed at you for ruining their holiday fun, or else not understanding why you can't participate if they make it multi cultural and add in a Hanukkah game. It's only going to open a can of worms.
As long as they are OK with you abstaining, that's really the most important.


I thought OP is telling one person this. Not the entire workplace.

Also why would anyone think the solution is to add Hanukkah in? If Halloween goes against your religious beliefs than it doesn’t matter what they add in to make you feel good.

I’d specify to the person organizing work events that I hope to join future events that aren’t holiday based.
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:37 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
I thought OP is telling one person this. Not the entire workplace.

Also why would anyone think the solution is to add Hanukkah in? If Halloween goes against your religious beliefs than it doesn’t matter what they add in to make you feel good.

I’d specify to the person organizing work events that I hope to join future events that aren’t holiday based.

Have you ever worked in a secular American workplace?
Because yes, that's what it's like.
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Sunny Days




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:41 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
The company I work for was formerly owned by a frum person and I didn’t have this new issue. It has since been acquired by a public company and frum employees are the minority.
My team is having a Holloween Murder Mystery Party , via zoom . They requested that we RSVP . At first I didn’t answer. But then I saw there’s a form to fill out and one of the options was “I’m shy, but maybe I’ll join”. I selected that option as I was unsure what to do.
Now the person in charge messaged me asking if I think another frum person I work with is joining since he didn’t answer. I’m assuming he didn’t answer because he’s stuck like me not knowing how to go about this. Is there a Halacha issue with dressing up on Holloween? Is it a religious holiday? Is this something I’m not allowed to participate in because I’m frum? Anybody know? I was thinking of asking a shaila , but figured I’d hear first if anyone else was ever in this position, specifically for Holloween?

Halloween is NOT a religious holiday. I would still ask a shaila especially if it’s a mixed gender party- but not sure if that’s such an issue on zoom.

And murder mystery party sounds spooky lol! Will it be like the game clue? Wink
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:42 pm
amother [ Ebony ] wrote:
Have you ever worked in a secular American workplace?
Because yes, that's what it's like.


No. I moved to Israel at 14. Haven’t been back since.

Are people in America that dumb these days? Also if there’s a workplace party next week for over 50 people I’d assume they have everything ordered and planned.

Is OP saying something really going to make them change the plans?

America is such a weird place. I think I’ll stay in Israel.

I guess disregard my advice if it’s considered that horrible to say anything about religion these days.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:43 pm
little neshamala wrote:
For those answering NO WAY, please realize it's not always so simple as that, and there may be other factors that complicate the situation.
.


ITA which explains my first post. But it seems pretty clear that this had to be a no. A complete no? Probably - I'm inclined to say definitely - but this is where a rav comes in.
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:50 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
No. I moved to Israel at 14. Haven’t been back since.

Are people in America that dumb these days? Also if there’s a workplace party next week for over 50 people I’d assume they have everything ordered and planned.

Is OP saying something really going to make them change the plans?

America is such a weird place. I think I’ll stay in Israel.

I guess disregard my advice if it’s considered that horrible to say anything about religion these days.

They will get worried about complaints getting reported to HR and will cancel all future holiday related events (which aren't even religious, just usually silly games, some tinsel decorations and a gift exchange with refreshments) and people will be bummed out they don't get a fun afternoon and instead have a regular day of work (and will grumble abt the people who ruined their fun.
OR
They will try to be nice and make it a multi cultural holiday party with Xmas, Hanukkah (and probably Kwanzaa for good measure) decorations and games. And they truly will not understand why you won't go to the party when they are including Jewish stuff, and they will get insulted. BTDT and it's very sticky.
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little neshamala




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:54 pm
amother [ Ebony ] wrote:

OR
They will try to be nice and make it a multi cultural holiday party with Xmas, Hanukkah (and probably Kwanzaa for good measure) decorations and games. And they truly will not understand why you won't go to the party when they are including Jewish stuff, and they will get insulted. BTDT and it's very sticky.


Yep
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:56 pm
Halloween as most Americans celebrate it, is not a religious holiday.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:57 pm
Wow that’s insane. I mean no one is going to like or agree with every event.

I mean what if they do a BBQ and it’s not kosher or halal? What about people who are vegan? What about people who just don’t like meat?

What about people who just don’t like Halloween?

You can’t make everything for everyone. I guess the new liberal slogans are that yes you can.
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little neshamala




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 10:59 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
ITA which explains my first post. But it seems pretty clear that this had to be a no. A complete no? Probably - I'm inclined to say definitely - but this is where a rav comes in.


I hear you but I really dont think its such a definite no. It depends on what she stands to lose by not participating, and it likely also depends on exactly what is being celebrated. Pagan themed celebrating is not the same as playing a murder who dunnit game "for halloween"
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