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Can you explain Mitzva tantz?
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:24 am
I am wondering if anyone can explain the idea behind mitzva tantz?
Why is it a "mitzva"?
What is the idea about talking about and praising all the men before they dance?
Why do many badchanim use the time to make jokes?
I have heard it said that the mitzva tantz is the holiest part of the wedding, and you can daven for anything.
The rebbes make a huge deal about the mitzva tantz- like it's the most important part of a chassidish wedding.

Please let's keep this very respectful. No bashing.
(. Full disclosure: I grew up with this custom, but I never understood it and I don't know anyone who really does. I think it's kind of an esoteric topic. But if you have insight I really appreciate your sharing it. )
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amother




Glitter
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:26 am
Just to correct a typical misconception, the chuppa is the holiest time of the wedding. The mitzvah tanz is only a recent minhag.
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amother




PlumPink
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:32 am
We are Litvish but we had one to make the machutanim happy. My machuteiste said that all the neshamos of our ancestors come down then. I think it's supposed to be more hartzig than like a roast (jokey send up of relatives). That's the badchan's dept.
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Fave




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:33 am
I believe the “Mitzvah” is to be Mesemiach Chosson V”Kallah by dancing in front of Kallah.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:43 am
It's a mitzvah because it's a mitzvah to be misameach chasson v'kallah. This whole grammen/hesped thing got out of hand, we stopped it in our family.
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amother




Pumpkin
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:44 am
What is a mitzva tantz?
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amother




Scarlet
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:54 am
Yeshivish here but Chassidish background from the “heim”, so lots of mitzvah tantzes in my family.
I never understood the dancing chosson kallah together. I always felt it was a real breach of tznius. In our very yeshivish circles, it would never go. After I got married, my husband told me the same thing. The same way we would never walk down the street holding hands, why can they dance together publicly. (And please don’t say it’s not public. Most mitzva tantzes I’ve been to, have at least 100 people sitting and watching)
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BrisketBoss




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 10:59 am
In every video I've seen of a mitzvah tanz, the chosson and kallah are standing apart and merely holding onto the same...ribbon? These comments suggest that might be more of a fringe thing and usually the couple actually touches each other?
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:02 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Yeshivish here but Chassidish background from the “heim”, so lots of mitzvah tantzes in my family.
I never understood the dancing chosson kallah together. I always felt it was a real breach of tznius. In our very yeshivish circles, it would never go. After I got married, my husband told me the same thing. The same way we would never walk down the street holding hands, why can they dance together publicly. (And please don’t say it’s not public. Most mitzva tantzes I’ve been to, have at least 100 people sitting and watching)


By my Chassidish relatives, the Chasan and Kallah hold hands, but they don't actually move.

I guess the hand-holding in public is same as they do after the chuppah.
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amother




Jasmine
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:02 am
I don’t know the origin of the name of the tantz.
But the part that speaks the most to me is the that the neshamos of the departed family members come to be a zechus for the couple and to participate in the Simcha . That’s part of what the speaking is about before each person/group is called up- talking about family roots, leading up to who the couple is today. I think it’s so beautiful. As far as being a breach of tznius, there is a time and place for everything. This is a very strong minhag and carries a lot of spiritual weight. I’ve never been to a mitzvah tantz and thought to myself, oh what a breach of tznius. At least the ones I’ve been to have been very serious with a lot of emotions and kavanah.
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amother




Tanzanite
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:04 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Yeshivish here but Chassidish background from the “heim”, so lots of mitzvah tantzes in my family.
I never understood the dancing chosson kallah together. I always felt it was a real breach of tznius. In our very yeshivish circles, it would never go. After I got married, my husband told me the same thing. The same way we would never walk down the street holding hands, why can they dance together publicly. (And please don’t say it’s not public. Most mitzva tantzes I’ve been to, have at least 100 people sitting and watching)



My question exactly. I hate that part, and never understood it. Same question with people who hold hands when they're danced away after the chuppah. My understanding is that this is also more widely accepted among chassidish couples; I know yeshivish poskim are against it. If its not ok to hold hands in public, it shouldnt be ok by a wedding either. There's no special heter for anything by a wedding. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me. And if you have no issue with holding hands ever, halachicly or hashkafically, that's another story.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:06 am
BrisketBoss wrote:
In every video I've seen of a mitzvah tanz, the chosson and kallah are standing apart and merely holding onto the same...ribbon? These comments suggest that might be more of a fringe thing and usually the couple actually touches each other?


You probably saw Rebbish mitzvah tanz. Regular mitzvah tantz, the chasson kallah dance together holding hands. By us (and I'm sure others as well) the kallah also dances with her father, grandfathers, and brothers. (Without a gartel.) Only immediate family stays for Mitzvah tantz.
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honeymoon




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:07 am
BrisketBoss wrote:
In every video I've seen of a mitzvah tanz, the chosson and kallah are standing apart and merely holding onto the same...ribbon? These comments suggest that might be more of a fringe thing and usually the couple actually touches each other?


No. The gartel you are seeing is when the kallah dances with all the men other than her fathers and grandfathers. When the chosson kallah dance together they hold hands, if she is not niddah of course. When I say dance, it is very different than the kallah dancing with her friends during dancing. The the couple generally just about walk to the tune of the music and it is done in a tznius manner.

For those not seeing it growing up, I can see it being a strange and perhaps, untznius custom. But for the ones who have this minhag, its a beautiful and very holy time.
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amother




Jasmine
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:10 am
amother [ Jasmine ] wrote:
I don’t know the origin of the name of the tantz.
But the part that speaks the most to me is the that the neshamos of the departed family members come to be a zechus for the couple and to participate in the Simcha . That’s part of what the speaking is about before each person/group is called up- talking about family roots, leading up to who the couple is today. I think it’s so beautiful. As far as being a breach of tznius, there is a time and place for everything. This is a very strong minhag and carries a lot of spiritual weight. I’ve never been to a mitzvah tantz and thought to myself, oh what a breach of tznius. At least the ones I’ve been to have been very serious with a lot of emotions and kavanah.


Just curious why this was hugged?
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amother




Tealblue
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:20 am
amother [ Tanzanite ] wrote:
My question exactly. I hate that part, and never understood it. Same question with people who hold hands when they're danced away after the chuppah. My understanding is that this is also more widely accepted among chassidish couples; I know yeshivish poskim are against it. If its not ok to hold hands in public, it shouldnt be ok by a wedding either. There's no special heter for anything by a wedding. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me. And if you have no issue with holding hands ever, halachicly or hashkafically, that's another story.


Holding hands after chuppa by chassidim is to connect the chuppa and yichud. They do it because its their minhag, not because they want to.
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:22 am
A mitzvah tantz is a kabula which has soidos that are higher than anything we can understand. It's brought down either from the Ari hakudesh or the baal shem tov.

The kavunas that people should have when dancing is to dance for Hashem and have in mind when moshiach will come it will be the yichud of the shemos hakedoshim.

It's an extremely holy thing and it is highest thing al pi chassides that happens by a chasuna. The chuppa is a halacha but the mitzvah tantz is a soidos thing. For example sukkos has mitzvas to eat in the sukka and shake a lulav but dancing simchas torah is not a halacha but a hecherkeit which is also a kabula. A mitzvah tantz by a chasuna is similar to dancing simchas torah.

The badchan making jokes is something our family doesn't do and that is about making happy the chussen and the kallah not related to the soidos of the kabula of mitzvah tantz. We do gram ois the men dancing and the previous doiros who are not with us anymore, but my father said when I hear this by a mitzvah tantz I should have in mind the zechisim and mitzvas we are doing now and how these make a kiddesh Hashem and about techiyas hameisim once Moshiach will come, and basically the entire time we should be thinking about the greatness and oneness of Hashem.

Also about tznius, the kallah doesn't dance or move just her hands are held by her father and the chussen and sometimes the grandfather. Immediate family is by the mitzvah tantz so aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings from both sides which ke''h is many people, but it's not a huge public event for guests like the rebbish ones some people here may have seen. Women are on one side and men on the other, although there is no mechitza. And in our family the kallah wears a cape for tznius.


Last edited by nchr on Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:27 am
amother [ Tanzanite ] wrote:
My question exactly. I hate that part, and never understood it. Same question with people who hold hands when they're danced away after the chuppah. My understanding is that this is also more widely accepted among chassidish couples; I know yeshivish poskim are against it. If its not ok to hold hands in public, it shouldnt be ok by a wedding either. There's no special heter for anything by a wedding. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me. And if you have no issue with holding hands ever, halachicly or hashkafically, that's another story.


Leaving that aside - and maybe it's why some of my relatives don't stay for the mitzvah tantz - isn't it potentially awkward for the chosson and kallah if they can't?
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amother




Ghostwhite
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:29 am
amother [ Tanzanite ] wrote:
My question exactly. I hate that part, and never understood it. Same question with people who hold hands when they're danced away after the chuppah. My understanding is that this is also more widely accepted among chassidish couples; I know yeshivish poskim are against it. If its not ok to hold hands in public, it shouldnt be ok by a wedding either. There's no special heter for anything by a wedding. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me. And if you have no issue with holding hands ever, halachicly or hashkafically, that's another story.


I'm yeshivish and our poskim also don't because of tznius in public.
But just so you know, chassidish couples are not holding hands out of romance. (Many chassidish couples are still strangers to each other at that point). They do it to show a kinyan after the kiddushin at the chuppa.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:37 am
amother [ Jasmine ] wrote:
I don’t know the origin of the name of the tantz.
But the part that speaks the most to me is the that the neshamos of the departed family members come to be a zechus for the couple and to participate in the Simcha . That’s part of what the speaking is about before each person/group is called up- talking about family roots, leading up to who the couple is today. I think it’s so beautiful. As far as being a breach of tznius, there is a time and place for everything. This is a very strong minhag and carries a lot of spiritual weight. I’ve never been to a mitzvah tantz and thought to myself, oh what a breach of tznius. At least the ones I’ve been to have been very serious with a lot of emotions and kavanah.


In the Litvish/yeshivish world, we believe the neshamos come down to the Chuppah. For us, that's the high and holiest and most connected point. I remember walking down to my Chuppah and thinking that my beloved grandmother is here.....

When my youngest sister was in shidduchim, my mother A"H was very ill, and at a certain point, my sister told me that she realizes that my mother probably won't be at her wedding. We discussed different options, like all the sisters going to her before wedding dressed up, dance with her, etc....

But then my mother passed away right before she got engaged (they were already dating) and my sister said during the Shiva, now Mommy will be at my wedding.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:39 am
amother [ Ghostwhite ] wrote:
I'm yeshivish and our poskim also don't because of tznius in public.
But just so you know, chassidish couples are not holding hands out of romance. (Many chassidish couples are still strangers to each other at that point). They do it to show a kinyan after the kiddushin at the chuppa.


I think everyone doing their own minhag is beautiful. Elu V'elu.

A confession: Since I come from Chassidish roots, all my relatives held hands coming down from the Chuppah. I never, ever saw otherwise. Or never noticed.

So at my own wedding, I was completely bewildered when DH did not take my hand after the Chuppah. I just followed along, wondering. No one had ever enlightened me that yeshivish people don't do it.
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