Can you explain Mitzva tantz?

amother

Daffodil

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:31 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Correct. My grandmother was in the bungalow colony with many Roshei Yeshiva and we’re on first name basis.

I'm confused. The rosh yeshivos allowed women to sing in front of unrelated men? They sent their sons and daughters to coed camps? That somehow doesn't sound right.

Genius

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:36 pm

amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:

You can do an imamother search. This has been discussed many times. PS, this wasnt before the war.

Imamother search for what? I literally have no idea what your point is.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:51 pm

amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:

I'm confused. The rosh yeshivos allowed women to sing in front of unrelated men? They sent their sons and daughters to coed camps? That somehow doesn't sound right.

I mentioned I have a large family and gave examples from different relatives. Maybe the ones who sang weren't the most yeshivish. The other ones who worked in a mixed staff setting in daycamp are more yeshivish than probably anyone on this site. Children of Roshei Yeshiva. Because things were different back then. Maybe it doesn't happen today. The only reason I brought these examples is because I thought it was odd that such yeshivish people would tell their stories with such pride and enthusiasm to their children. I don't think I'd tell my kids if I was involved in something I wouldn't want them to emulate. If females from my extended family were singing by the shabbos table, I'd ask them not to, instead of encouraging it.
I gave examples from real life yeshivish people of things that would be considered assur by chassidim. You don't like my examples or my relatives, we can both live with that.

In any case, this is a dead end thread by now.

momlife

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:54 pm

nchr wrote:

No. We don't touch our husband in public. We don't even call each other by names in PRIVATE and that has a mekor in halacha according to my dayan.

I'm saying that a mitzvah tantz is a different circumstance and I want to know if there is a name of a respected posek from your yeshivish community who has actually said this is usar or if people are just determining that themsevles?

I’m not going to say the name on here, but my husband’s rov (Lakewood yeshivish) told him not to participate in my sister’s mitzvah tanz. (He’s yeshivish, my sister married chassidish, my family is a little “heimish”)

amother

Bluebonnet

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 10:06 pm

momlife wrote:

This is perfectly understandable. Your husband is Yeshivish. But it's a totally different story for Chassidim.

Pandabeer

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 10:28 pm

amother [ Ghostwhite ] wrote:

By the time a boy or girl are old enough to marry, they are mature enough to be trusted with doing the appropriate thing. They don't need parents watching them, just as they won't need parents monitoring them during niddah after marriage to make sure they don't do anything they shouldn't. They have yiras shomayim and follow halacha. The boy and girl discuss each date with their parents and often a rebbi or someone trusted.

After marriage is different especially for men - there's the concept of pas besalo meaning you know you can do it, maybe just now not but you have it within reach, while they're still dating and even after engagement they have the same yetzer horo as any brochure (I assume that's why by yeshivish/litvish they have a 6 week engagement)

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 10:31 pm

Pandabeer wrote:

That's true about pas besalo. But they are mature enough to remain fully appropriate during dating. And yes, that's why we have short engagements, because you have a relationship and there's no benefit to prolonging the wait. but usually 2.5-3.5 months. 6 weeks happens, but rare.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:06 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

And we also explained mitzva tantz yet you don't stop demanding explanation again and again and again. You have all your answers regarding mitzva tantz in the first few pages.

No, I am not demanding an explanation any more. I got it. It's considered heilige for chassidim to hold hands in public by their wedding but never again after. I don't claim to understand, but the best I've heard is that it's something beyond the understanding of most of us here. End.

The conversation has since moved on if you haven't noticed.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:15 pm

amother [ Seablue ] wrote:

I gave real life examples. You're entitled to say real yeshivish people don't do that, as I thought you would. I can't give more details or I'll have relatives on to me. Yes there is a spectrum, like everywhere else, not everything is so uniform once you spend time in people's homes.

I think it is a mistake to compare yeshivish and chassidish lives this way. On the surface amongst the stricter families, things may look similar. But since the hashkafa is so different, there will be a minhag here and there that is not understandable to the other side. And that's fine.

You don't understand. You can't bring a random example of a few people you know who do something against halacha and say it's something yeshivish people do in the same way chassidim do mitzvah tantz. For that, you'd have to bring something that is absolutely sanctioned by the majority of yeshivish rabbonim. And women singing in front of males who aren't relatives definitely does not fit into this category.

amother

Ginger

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:17 pm

amother [ Tanzanite ] wrote:

If you must be rude, you have no place in this discussion.
You replied to a post from several pages ago and you're telling me that the conversation has moved on since......

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:25 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

If you must be rude, you have no place in this discussion.
You replied to a post from several pages ago and you're telling me that the conversation has moved on since......

Don't mean to be rude, just responding in kind to the tone of your own post... My apologies for being a few pages behind but I don't spend every minute on imamother and this thread is moving rly quickly. And obviously I was referring to what the conversation was up to at that point. Which is when you responded...

amother

Ginger

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:26 pm

amother [ Tanzanite ] wrote:

And you're doing the same thing now.....
I responded to your post the next page.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:28 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

And you're doing the same thing now.....
I responded to your post the next page.

Huh? I was answering your reply to my post, how could you have responded on the next page if I didn't respond until now?

And gosh, I didn't know it's a crime not to spend every moment on imamother and to reply to every post immediately. My apologies.

amother

Ginger

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:32 pm

My reply to your post was a page after you posted, literally right afterwards.
You're replying now "the conversation has since moved on if you have noticed" to a post that I wrote probably 6 or 8 pages ago (and the conversation has long moved on).....so you're replying now to a post from 6 pages ago while being rude and telling me that the conversation has since moved on to a post that I replied to a page later.
You don't need to spend every moment on imamother, but don't reply to a post from 6 pages ago all rudely, especially when the discussion is totally different by now.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 11:36 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

You posted now "the conversation has since moved on if you have noticed" to a post that I wrote probably 6 pages ago (and the conversation has long moved on).....so you're replying now to a post from 6 pages ago while being rude and telling me that the conversation has since moved on.

Again, please reread your own post if you want to find rudeness.

I meant the conversation had already moved on at that point, when you posted. You claimed I did not stop demanding an explanation to mitzvah tantz and I told you I hadn't asked for one since posters explained it pages ago. End of story.