|
|
|
|
|
Forum
-> Children's Health
-> Vaccinations
amother
Cerulean
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 6:48 pm
amother [ Topaz ] wrote: | I'm sorry but it is not my job to spoon feed information to people who are unwilling to read primary sources.
Any information I give is going to be disputed and picked over by you so I what is the point.
I have supplied information for those who aren't too intellectually lazy to actually read and make their own determination based on data. What you conclude from that information is not my responsibility.
As per my original post, my intent is to provide a source of information for those who are interested in reading various sources of information instead of relying on an echo chamber of right wing disinformation. If after reading it, they are not satisfied with the methodology so be it but it is not my intent to defend the methodology to someone who is too lazy to even bother to read the poll and its conclusions but without reading it is attacking its conclusions. 🤷🏼‍♀️
And the conclusions aren't even controversial - that is part that I am finding kind of funny. What kind of poll do you need to know that the anti-vax movement is principally composed of fundamentalist X-tians who identify as Republican and live in rural areas. One just has to look at levels of vaccination in various states and counties - or even zip codes when relevant to realize that. |
But it's your job to spoon feed polls? You are writing up long paragraphs and trying to convince everyone of your stance. So seems while you are at it, just answer the questions.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
7
|
tryinghard
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 6:50 pm
First off, it’s quite a jump to assume that just because someone is part of the 85% in NYS (I doubt these numbers for various reasons, but let’s work with it) that means they are not anti-vax (anti THIS vax) and/or anti-mandate.
By definition, the fact that there is a mandate that has caused many to vaccinate, and many to lose their jobs, means that there are all of those people who were not proponents of the vaccine. And I guarantee that nearly every single one of those people, no matter what they chose to do when it came down to the wire, are very resentful of the mandate.
Furthermore, I know quite a few people who took the vaccine and regretted it. I know more people who felt compelled to by various pressures but aren’t fans of it. And even more who are strong proponents of the vaccine, but are adamantly against forcing ANYONE to take it.
And there are many polls that show that the mandates are actually quite unpopular. Polling is an inexact process at best. They are far from infallible (remember how wrong polls were on Ohio, Florida and Texas were? They were all predicted to go to Biden. And not by razor margins).
And one last thought: there are a lot of people who have no problem with the vaccine - for adults... But don’t you DARE come near their kids!
| |
|
Back to top |
0
14
|
amother
Caramel
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:03 pm
tryinghard wrote: | Polling is an inexact process at best. They are far from infallible (remember how wrong polls were on Ohio, Florida and Texas were? They were all predicted to go to Biden. And not by razor margins). |
Not to mention how wrong the polls were when Trump won against Hillary. Had the polls been even close to right, would she and the entire left been caught by surprise the way they were?
| |
|
Back to top |
0
5
|
amother
Impatiens
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:08 pm
amother [ Topaz ] wrote: | I'm sorry but it is not my job to spoon feed information to people who are unwilling to read primary sources.
Any information I give is going to be disputed and picked over by you so I what is the point.
I have supplied information for those who aren't too intellectually lazy to actually read and make their own determination based on data. What you conclude from that information is not my responsibility.
As per my original post, my intent is to provide a source of information for those who are interested in reading various sources of information instead of relying on an echo chamber of right wing disinformation. If after reading it, they are not satisfied with the methodology so be it but it is not my intent to defend the methodology to someone who is too lazy to even bother to read the poll and its conclusions but without reading it is attacking its conclusions. 🤷🏼‍♀️
And the conclusions aren't even controversial - that is part that I am finding kind of funny. What kind of poll do you need to know that the anti-vax movement is principally composed of fundamentalist X-tians who identify as Republican and live in rural areas. One just has to look at levels of vaccination in various states and counties - or even zip codes when relevant to realize that. |
So you dont want to answer any questions, not even how many people participated in these polls (which I didnt even see on the site) but we are supposed to believe you that the majority of
Americans support the vaccine mandates? Then you attack us for not being intellectual enough for daring to ask questions that you refuse to answer?
Sad that you projecting your own lack of intelligence onto people who are actually asking questions (btw asking questions is a sign of intelligence and means that we are thinking for ourselves instead of falling for your propaganda that majority of Americans support the mandates when you cant even tell us something as basic as how many people participated in the polls).
Do you know why the site doesnt put the number of people who participated in the polls on the graphs to tell us what we are looking at (other then to pretend that "majority of Americans" want the mandates)? And you keep claiming that fundamentalist x-tians are against the vax but how do you know that for sure if there is no way for the site to ensure that people are being honest and anyone can say whatever they want?
| |
|
Back to top |
0
6
|
amother
Garnet
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:12 pm
tryinghard wrote: | First off, it’s quite a jump to assume that just because someone is part of the 85% in NYS (I doubt these numbers for various reasons, but let’s work with it) that means they are not anti-vax (anti THIS vax) and/or anti-mandate.
By definition, the fact that there is a mandate that has caused many to vaccinate, and many to lose their jobs, means that there are all of those people who were not proponents of the vaccine. And I guarantee that nearly every single one of those people, no matter what they chose to do when it came down to the wire, are very resentful of the mandate.
Furthermore, I know quite a few people who took the vaccine and regretted it. I know more people who felt compelled to by various pressures but aren’t fans of it. And even more who are strong proponents of the vaccine, but are adamantly against forcing ANYONE to take it.
And there are many polls that show that the mandates are actually quite unpopular. Polling is an inexact process at best. They are far from infallible (remember how wrong polls were on Ohio, Florida and Texas were? They were all predicted to go to Biden. And not by razor margins).
And one last thought: there are a lot of people who have no problem with the vaccine - for adults... But don’t you DARE come near their kids! |
Yes, they use polls to convince and "guide" people. It is called gentle persuation aka propoganda. I do not believe the polls are not stacked. That is a very persuasive psychological tactic "It's just you, no one else".
NY *vomit* is not going to allow dmv renewals as of January without vax & ALL recommended boosters, they are forcing the issue to the extreme.
This politics is much bigger than just the vaccine.
Parents anti CRT are being watched as "terrorists".
Gifted classes are cancelled due to "equity".
Minorities are looking like pawns to politicians to manipulate at will. (Including us). Same rhetoric, champion one issue for each group to buy their cooperation elsewhere.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
6
|
mommy3b2c
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:12 pm
amother [ Topaz ] wrote: | This is a very reputable polling organization using polling methods recognized by statisticians. You are welcome to read their entire poll including how they polled.
Of course I wasn't polled - for what it is worth, you don't "vote" in a valid poll.
And needless to say your post just reflects my expectation that anything recognized as reliable information and data sources by most people is somehow suspect if it doesn't reflect people's erroneous view of how the world thinks.
You can read about the Kaiser Family Foundation as it is a very well respected organization in the field of public health.
Again, why is it shocking that anti-vax/anti-mandate sentiments are those of a minority and the demographics of those are Republican, X-tian fundamentalists residing in the most part in rural areas.
Just adding that you are indeed a minority in New York State if you are anti-vax/anti-mandate since 85% of New Yorkers over the age of 18 have received at least one jab based on most recent information. It would be a fair assumption that 85% are not anti-vax or anti-mandate since they chose to be vaccinated.
https://www.wgrz.com/article/n.....9eed6
Eight-five percent of adults across New York State have had at least one dose of the COVID vaccine, according to Gov. Kathy Hochul's office. Her office says 74.4 percent of New York adults have completed the vaccine series.
"As we reach this milestone of 85 percent of New Yorkers with at least one dose, we are one step closer to finally putting an end to this pandemic and getting our lives back to normal," Governor Hochul said in a statement. |
Anti vaccine And anti mandate are two totally different things . Almost everyone I know is pro vax and anti mandate. I myself am pro vax (if you want to get it or you are in a high risk category) and anti mandate .
| |
|
Back to top |
0
9
|
southernbubby
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:18 pm
amother [ Garnet ] wrote: |
Yes, they use polls to convince and "guide" people. It is called gentle persuation aka propoganda. I do not believe the polls are not stacked. That is a very persuasive psychological tactic "It's just you, no one else".
NY *vomit* is not going to allow dmv renewals as of January without vax & ALL recommended boosters, they are forcing the issue to the extreme.
This politics is much bigger than just the vaccine.
Parents anti CRT are being watched as "terrorists".
Gifted classes are cancelled due to "equity".
Minorities are looking like pawns to politicians to manipulate at will. (Including us). Same rhetoric, champion one issue for each group to buy their cooperation elsewhere. |
Probably the reason that the DMV lines here are hours long is because of all the NYers moving here.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
1
|
amother
Pansy
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:19 pm
amother [ Garnet ] wrote: |
NY *vomit* is not going to allow dmv renewals as of January without vax & ALL recommended boosters, they are forcing the issue to the extreme. |
Do you have a link for this?
| |
|
Back to top |
0
2
|
mommy3b2c
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:19 pm
amother [ Garnet ] wrote: |
Yes, they use polls to convince and "guide" people. It is called gentle persuation aka propoganda. I do not believe the polls are not stacked. That is a very persuasive psychological tactic "It's just you, no one else".
NY *vomit* is not going to allow dmv renewals as of January without vax & ALL recommended boosters, they are forcing the issue to the extreme.
This politics is much bigger than just the vaccine.
Parents anti CRT are being watched as "terrorists".
Gifted classes are cancelled due to "equity".
Minorities are looking like pawns to politicians to manipulate at will. (Including us). Same rhetoric, champion one issue for each group to buy their cooperation elsewhere. |
Is this true ? When I need to renew my license I won’t be able to? I’m starting to really get afraid of what is happening in this country .
| |
|
Back to top |
0
10
|
#BestBubby
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:23 pm
amother [ Topaz ] wrote: |
Just adding that you are indeed a minority in New York State if you are anti-vax/anti-mandate since 85% of New Yorkers over the age of 18 have received at least one jab based on most recent information. It would be a fair assumption that 85% are not anti-vax or anti-mandate since they chose to be vaccinated.
https://www.wgrz.com/article/n.....9eed6
Eight-five percent of adults across New York State have had at least one dose of the COVID vaccine, according to Gov. Kathy Hochul's office. Her office says 74.4 percent of New York adults have completed the vaccine series.
"As we reach this milestone of 85 percent of New Yorkers with at least one dose, we are one step closer to finally putting an end to this pandemic and getting our lives back to normal," Governor Hochul said in a statement. |
85% vaxxed does not mean 85% support the vaccine or the mandate.
A mandate means that many were FORCED to take the vaccine.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
9
|
southernbubby
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:24 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote: | So you dont want to answer any questions, not even how many people participated in these polls (which I didnt even see on the site) but we are supposed to believe you that the majority of
Americans support the vaccine mandates? Then you attack us for not being intellectual enough for daring to ask questions that you refuse to answer?
Sad that you projecting your own lack of intelligence onto people who are actually asking questions (btw asking questions is a sign of intelligence and means that we are thinking for ourselves instead of falling for your propaganda that majority of Americans support the mandates when you cant even tell us something as basic as how many people participated in the polls).
Do you know why the site doesnt put the number of people who participated in the polls on the graphs to tell us what we are looking at (other then to pretend that "majority of Americans" want the mandates)? And you keep claiming that fundamentalist x-tians are against the vax but how do you know that for sure if there is no way for the site to ensure that people are being honest and anyone can say whatever they want? |
I just read a report in the US News and World Report that vaccinated people are fed up with people who don't vaccinate and feel that they are prolonging the pandemic.
They didn't offer polls or numbers or how they arrived at that conclusion but obviously many people got vaccinated because they do feel that way and not because they were forced.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
2
|
southernbubby
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:26 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | Is this true ? When I need to renew my license I won’t be able to? I’m starting to really get afraid of what is happening in this country . |
Would you like me to pick you up at FLL airport? Welcome to Coral Springs.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
4
|
mommy3b2c
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:32 pm
southernbubby wrote: | Would you like me to pick you up at FLL airport? Welcome to Coral Springs. |
That very well just might be the next step. My husband has been talking about moving to Florida ...
| |
|
Back to top |
1
6
|
amother
Impatiens
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:34 pm
southernbubby wrote: | I just read a report in the US News and World Report that vaccinated people are fed up with people who don't vaccinate and feel that they are prolonging the pandemic.
They didn't offer polls or numbers or how they arrived at that conclusion but obviously many people got vaccinated because they do feel that way and not because they were forced. |
If you want to take that at face value and believe what they said because they said so (without even bringing any proof of what they said) then you are free to do that. But dont accuse me of not being intelligent enough not to believe a word they say considering that NY and/or other agencies have previously falsified and distorted data/statistics (and the fda fraudulently approved a drug without the required long term studies to prove that its safe) so there is no reason to trust any of them at this point.
But if the numbers are true and 85% of eligible adults are vaccinated in NY then why the need for further mandates? Why not just drop the mandates especially considering that the other 15 % are either recovered with antibodies/t-cells and/or have an exemption? Why continue issuing fines to stores or firing more people when there is no longer a need for the mandate? https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html
| |
|
Back to top |
0
4
|
amother
Caramel
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:50 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | Is this true ? When I need to renew my license I won’t be able to? I’m starting to really get afraid of what is happening in this country . |
It’s becoming more and more obvious that this has nothing to do with keeping people safe and everything to do with exerting control. How is someone unvaccinated driving in their car a threat to others??
| |
|
Back to top |
0
12
|
southernbubby
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 7:59 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote: | If you want to take that at face value and believe what they said because they said so (without even bringing any proof of what they said) then you are free to do that. But dont accuse me of not being intelligent enough not to believe a word they say considering that NY and/or other agencies have previously falsified and distorted data/statistics (and the fda fraudulently approved a drug without the required long term studies to prove that its safe) so there is no reason to trust any of them at this point.
But if the numbers are true and 85% of eligible adults are vaccinated in NY then why the need for further mandates? Why not just drop the mandates especially considering that the other 15 % are either recovered with antibodies/t-cells and/or have an exemption? Why continue issuing fines to stores or firing more people when there is no longer a need for the mandate? https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html |
I didn't accuse anyone of anything, even if they are anonymous.
You are obviously intelligent to realize that not all vaccinated people were conned, forced, or fooled into taking the shots. As much as you feel that there is evidence that the shots are dangerous, there is also evidence that large numbers of people have a better shot at survival if they get vaccinated so the narrative that they need to first get sick and then get "cured" doesn't sell as well as you might think it would.
And yes, some people did get shots that they probably didn't need so that they could travel to foreign countries. You can gather people in your country to protest being forced to take a shot but you really can't do anything about places who don't want unvaccinated tourists.
If enough people protest the mandates might end but you need to ask yourself why they don't all protest? Can it be that lots of people are in favor of mandates? One would think that millions would be out protesting but the protests are maybe getting a thousand people at a time.
And I am vaccinated and have natural immunity and am not in favor of mandates. I do agree that insurance companies have a right to charge higher premiums to unvaccinated adults.
| |
|
Back to top |
1
1
|
amother
Stoneblue
|
Sat, Oct 09 2021, 8:03 pm
hah! didnt think im only one. my daughters school, which is a quite big (over 200 girls per grade k"h) doesnt prob have a 10percent vaccination rate.
now all pro vaxxers. youre right. its all cuz of us....
| |
|
Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
DarkOrange
|
Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:59 am
Thanks OP. Anyone who is evolved with rw media a bit out of the frum world knows that there are thousands out there who are anti covid vax.
It's only on this website that people make it into a "jewish" issue. Wake up, there are thousands of Americans against mandates.
| |
|
Back to top |
1
3
|
wiki
|
Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:02 am
amother [ Caramel ] wrote: | Not to mention how wrong the polls were when Trump won against Hillary. Had the polls been even close to right, would she and the entire left been caught by surprise the way they were? |
Those polls were "way off"--by that you mean that they were 2-3 percent off, on average. A very normal degree of polling error, considered very normal if you make a historical analysis of 21st century political polling.
Anyone who knew how to read polls (like Nate Silver-type numbers people) went into the 2016 election knowing Trump had a very good shot (like 1-in-3) of winning.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
0
|
wiki
|
Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:07 am
Anyway, OP, you're surely correct that lots of people don't want to be mandated to get vaccinated. People who feel that way are definitely not alone.
But if they actually leave their jobs over this point...then they land much more in the minority. Mass civil disobedience and resistance to vaccine mandates simply isn't happening, across the country: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/.....ng=en
| |
|
Back to top |
0
1
|
Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Vaccuum mop two in one help me find a good one
|
6 |
Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:33 pm |
|
|
Tell us about your theme this year! (If you had one)
|
17 |
Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:54 pm |
|
|
No one comes to us to deliver
|
13 |
Fri, Mar 22 2024, 7:03 am |
|
|
Help! I have an agressive one
|
9 |
Thu, Mar 21 2024, 8:02 pm |
|
|
When one kid ruins the whole tone of the class
|
24 |
Wed, Mar 20 2024, 8:30 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
| |
|
|
|
|
|