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wiki




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:08 pm
amother [ Pansy ] wrote:
And yet, Biden's disapproval rating continues to climb. It's now the highest it's ever been, over 50%. Hard to believe a majority support the new mandate but are disliking him so intensely for unrelated reasons.


I trust this data.

Please ask yourself if you generally trust public opinion data research (polling), or if you assume that it's garbage unless it confirms your own views.

It sometimes seems like most people on here have no trust of public opinion unless it feeds a confirmation bias.
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california2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:27 pm
Under the easily located "methodology" tab of the KFF study:

FINDINGS METHODOLOGY ENDNOTES
This KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor was designed and analyzed by public opinion researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF). The survey was conducted September 13-22, 2021, among a nationally representative random digit dial telephone sample of 1,519 adults ages 18 and older (including interviews from 339 Hispanic adults and 306 non-Hispanic Black adults), living in the United States, including Alaska and Hawaii (note: persons without a telephone could not be included in the random selection process). Phone numbers used for this study were randomly generated from cell phone and landline sampling frames, with an overlapping frame design, and disproportionate stratification aimed at reaching Hispanic and non-Hispanic Black respondents as well as those living in areas with high rates of COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy. Stratification was based on incidence of the race/ethnicity subgroups and vaccine hesitancy within each frame. High hesitancy was defined as living in the top 25% of counties as far as the share of the population not intending to get vaccinated based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey. The sample also included 30 respondents reached by calling back respondents that had previously completed an interview on the KFF Tracking poll at least six months ago. Another 123 interviews were completed with respondents who had previously completed an interview on the SSRS Omnibus poll (and other RDD polls) and identified as Hispanic (n =64; including 4 in Spanish) or non-Hispanic Black (n=59). Computer-assisted telephone interviews conducted by landline (171) and cell phone (1,348, including 1,007 who had no landline telephone) were carried out in English and Spanish by SSRS of Glen Mills, PA. To efficiently obtain a sample of lower-income and non-White respondents, the sample also included an oversample of prepaid (pay-as-you-go) telephone numbers (25% of the cell phone sample consisted of prepaid numbers) Both the random digit dial landline and cell phone samples were provided by Marketing Systems Group (MSG). For the landline sample, respondents were selected by asking for the youngest adult male or female currently at home based on a random rotation. If no one of that gender was available, interviewers asked to speak with the youngest adult of the opposite gender. For the cell phone sample, interviews were conducted with the adult who answered the phone. KFF paid for all costs associated with the survey.

The combined landline and cell phone sample was weighted to balance the sample demographics to match estimates for the national population using data from the Census Bureau’s 2019 U.S. American Community Survey (ACS), on relations, age, education, race, Hispanic origin, and region, within race-groups, along with data from the 2010 Census on population density. The sample was also weighted to match current patterns of telephone use using data from the July-December 2020 National Health Interview Survey The weight takes into account the fact that respondents with both a landline and cell phone have a higher probability of selection in the combined sample and also adjusts for the household size for the landline sample, and design modifications, namely, the oversampling of potentially undocumented respondents and of prepaid cell phone numbers, as well as the likelihood of non-response for the re-contacted sample. All statistical tests of significance account for the effect of weighting.

The margin of sampling error including the design effect for the full sample is plus or minus 3 percentage points. Numbers of respondents and margins of sampling error for key subgroups are shown in the table below. For results based on other subgroups, the margin of sampling error may be higher. Sample sizes and margins of sampling error for other subgroups are available by request. Sampling error is only one of many potential sources of error and there may be other unmeasured error in this or any other public opinion poll. Kaiser Family Foundation public opinion and survey research is a charter member of the Transparency Initiative of the American Association for Public Opinion Research.

This work was supported in part by grants from the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative DAF (an advised fund of Silicon Valley Community Foundation), the Ford Foundation, and the Molina Family Foundation. We value our funders. KFF maintains full editorial control over all of its policy analysis, polling, and journalism activities.
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california2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:30 pm
I am very interested in seeing a study with a nationally representative population that shows widespread resistance; "most" in your words, which is >50 percent. I'm actually against mandates for this vaccine at this time. I think the vaccine is great! I think everyone should get the vaccine! I think mandates may be counter-productive as we're seeing here. I think everyone has now doubled down on their echo chambers - likely including myself, though I'm happy to try to break out by reading whatever you can show me that shows that most people oppose vaccines or even vaccine mandates; and asking your friends (or your Facebook friends or your kid's schoolmates) doesn't count (not representative of the 350+ million people in the US)
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amother
Pansy


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:39 pm
wiki wrote:
Anyway, OP, you're surely correct that lots of people don't want to be mandated to get vaccinated. People who feel that way are definitely not alone.

But if they actually leave their jobs over this point...then they land much more in the minority. Mass civil disobedience and resistance to vaccine mandates simply isn't happening, across the country: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/.....ng=en


Or it's not being reported. Did everyone hear about the 1,600 cancelled flights on Southwest since yesterday due to employees quitting over the mandate? As one example.
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amother
Impatiens


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:45 pm
california2 wrote:
Under the easily located "methodology" tab of the KFF study:

FINDINGS METHODOLOGY ENDNOTES
This KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor was designed and analyzed by public opinion researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF). The survey was conducted September 13-22, 2021, among a nationally representative random digit dial telephone sample of 1,519 adults ages 18 and older (including interviews from 339 Hispanic adults and 306 non-Hispanic Black adults), living in the United States, including Alaska and Hawaii (note: persons without a telephone could not be included in the random selection process). Phone numbers used for this study were randomly generated from cell phone and landline sampling frames, with an overlapping frame design, and disproportionate stratification aimed at reaching Hispanic and non-Hispanic Black respondents as well as those living in areas with high rates of COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy. Stratification was based on incidence of the race/ethnicity subgroups and vaccine hesitancy within each frame. High hesitancy was defined as living in the top 25% of counties as far as the share of the population not intending to get vaccinated based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey. The sample also included 30 respondents reached by calling back respondents that had previously completed an interview on the KFF Tracking poll at least six months ago. Another 123 interviews were completed with respondents who had previously completed an interview on the SSRS Omnibus poll (and other RDD polls) and identified as Hispanic (n =64; including 4 in Spanish) or non-Hispanic Black (n=59). Computer-assisted telephone interviews conducted by landline (171) and cell phone (1,348, including 1,007 who had no landline telephone) were carried out in English and Spanish by SSRS of Glen Mills, PA. To efficiently obtain a sample of lower-income and non-White respondents, the sample also included an oversample of prepaid (pay-as-you-go) telephone numbers (25% of the cell phone sample consisted of prepaid numbers) Both the random digit dial landline and cell phone samples were provided by Marketing Systems Group (MSG). For the landline sample, respondents were selected by asking for the youngest adult male or female currently at home based on a random rotation. If no one of that gender was available, interviewers asked to speak with the youngest adult of the opposite gender. For the cell phone sample, interviews were conducted with the adult who answered the phone. KFF paid for all costs associated with the survey.

The combined landline and cell phone sample was weighted to balance the sample demographics to match estimates for the national population using data from the Census Bureau’s 2019 U.S. American Community Survey (ACS), on relations, age, education, race, Hispanic origin, and region, within race-groups, along with data from the 2010 Census on population density. The sample was also weighted to match current patterns of telephone use using data from the July-December 2020 National Health Interview Survey The weight takes into account the fact that respondents with both a landline and cell phone have a higher probability of selection in the combined sample and also adjusts for the household size for the landline sample, and design modifications, namely, the oversampling of potentially undocumented respondents and of prepaid cell phone numbers, as well as the likelihood of non-response for the re-contacted sample. All statistical tests of significance account for the effect of weighting.

The margin of sampling error including the design effect for the full sample is plus or minus 3 percentage points. Numbers of respondents and margins of sampling error for key subgroups are shown in the table below. For results based on other subgroups, the margin of sampling error may be higher. Sample sizes and margins of sampling error for other subgroups are available by request. Sampling error is only one of many potential sources of error and there may be other unmeasured error in this or any other public opinion poll. Kaiser Family Foundation public opinion and survey research is a charter member of the Transparency Initiative of the American Association for Public Opinion Research.

This work was supported in part by grants from the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative DAF (an advised fund of Silicon Valley Community Foundation), the Ford Foundation, and the Molina Family Foundation. We value our funders. KFF maintains full editorial control over all of its policy analysis, polling, and journalism activities.

As per google, there are over 329 million people living in America (as of 2020). And according to the bolded, 1,519 people were interviewed. Do you realize that this is less than 1% of Americans who were interviewed? How do you take this as an authority that majority of American want vaccine mandates when less than 1% of people living in America were interviewed?
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amother
Pansy


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:45 pm
wiki wrote:
I trust this data.

Please ask yourself if you generally trust public opinion data research (polling), or if you assume that it's garbage unless it confirms your own views.

It sometimes seems like most people on here have no trust of public opinion unless it feeds a confirmation bias.


Real clear politics, it's an aggregate.
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amother
Garnet


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 8:39 pm
amother [ Pansy ] wrote:
Or it's not being reported. Did everyone hear about the 1,600 cancelled flights on Southwest since yesterday due to employees quitting over the mandate? As one example.


They are blaming the weather, no worries.
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amother
Calendula


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 8:42 pm
Right certainly a storm is gathering Wink
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wiki




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 8:46 pm
amother [ Pansy ] wrote:
Or it's not being reported. Did everyone hear about the 1,600 cancelled flights on Southwest since yesterday due to employees quitting over the mandate? As one example.


Well, that example is reported, isn't it?

But according to the airline's pilots' union, the employees are annoyed that the flights were cancelled, and the cancellations had nothing to do with staffing protests.

This is not the first time this year that Southwest has cancelled a huge percentage of flights due to scheduling mismanagement.
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wiki




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 8:51 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
As per google, there are over 329 million people living in America (as of 2020). And according to the bolded, 1,519 people were interviewed. Do you realize that this is less than 1% of Americans who were interviewed? How do you take this as an authority that majority of American want vaccine mandates when less than 1% of people living in America were interviewed?


Take the time to study a bit better how scientific polling is conducted. They don't just pick random people off the sidewalk somewhere; a typical study like this tries hard to match their 1,500-person sample to the country's profile, in geographic diversity, urban/rural split, age dispersion, educational levels, and party affiliation. Whenever the respondents are unrepresentative of the national profile, they will weight the results of certain respondents to make their results more representative.

Is polling accurate? For public opinion questions, we cannot ever really know. But for voting-related questions, we can compare polling to actual vote totals. Sometimes, it is nearly perfect. More commonly, it's off by a few percent; polling averages tend to be far more reliable than a single poll. But, in general, it is very rare for polling to be off by lots and lots of percentage points.
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amother
Pansy


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:01 pm
wiki wrote:
Well, that example is reported, isn't it?

But according to the airline's pilots' union, the employees are annoyed that the flights were cancelled, and the cancellations had nothing to do with staffing protests.

This is not the first time this year that Southwest has cancelled a huge percentage of flights due to scheduling mismanagement.


Reported a day and a half later. It should have been a top national story.

Of course they're blaming it on anything other than the mandate.

Here's the employees' court filing asking for an injunction:
https://storage.courtlistener......0.pdf

There are also reports of "staff shortages" on Amtrak and Washington state ferries. The question is, is this the beginning of a movement?
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amother
NeonPurple


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:12 pm
As much as people like to convince themselves that anti vaxx and COVID denialism puts them in the brave minority, the fact is in the frum community they are the majority. It is much, much harder and more complicated if you try to insist on masking and COVID precautions and there certainly is no community support for your stance. You will be called a meshuggener, a liberal shill, a communist, a socialist or worse.

In the frum community, it is the pro vaxxers who are being bullied into silence.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:23 pm
amother [ NeonPurple ] wrote:
As much as people like to convince themselves that anti vaxx and COVID denialism puts them in the brave minority, the fact is in the frum community they are the majority. It is much, much harder and more complicated if you try to insist on masking and COVID precautions and there certainly is no community support for your stance. You will be called a meshuggener, a liberal shill, a communist, a socialist or worse.

In the frum community, it is the pro vaxxers who are being bullied into silence.


But they still expect you to go to Albany to fight for their freedoms! But they will stay home! It's YOU that they expect to go to bat for them! Then they will come on here to say that the pro-vaxers are denying them their rights because you used your vax card to get into the gym. You shouldn't do that, you know because you are complicit with the communist government.
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amother
Impatiens


 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:51 pm
wiki wrote:
Take the time to study a bit better how scientific polling is conducted. They don't just pick random people off the sidewalk somewhere; a typical study like this tries hard to match their 1,500-person sample to the country's profile, in geographic diversity, urban/rural split, age dispersion, educational levels, and party affiliation. Whenever the respondents are unrepresentative of the national profile, they will weight the results of certain respondents to make their results more representative.

Is polling accurate? For public opinion questions, we cannot ever really know. But for voting-related questions, we can compare polling to actual vote totals. Sometimes, it is nearly perfect. More commonly, it's off by a few percent; polling averages tend to be far more reliable than a single poll. But, in general, it is very rare for polling to be off by lots and lots of percentage points.

I wont go into specifics about my qualifications on scientific studies or the major problems with this study (claiming that its indicative of what America wants but excluding Asians and Jews, or that it was sponsored by the same people who own facebook who is censoring/banning people they disagree with so there is def confirmation bias, etc ) but lets say I accept your premise that the 1,519 (or less than 1% of America) people interviewed proves that majority of Americans actually want the mandates. There is only one problem with this premise and that is more than 1,519 people either participated in class action lawsuits against the govt to stop the mandates and/or were fired from their jobs for not complying with the evil and abusive mandates. Therefore, the fact that more than 1,519 sued and/or got fired from their jobs proves that majority of Americans do NOT want the mandates. This makes your study moot and certainly not indicative of what majority of Americans want. Time to stop the mandates and let people live their lives in peace.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 9:57 pm
amother [ Garnet ] wrote:
Not worthy Salut

Yes, they use polls to convince and "guide" people. It is called gentle persuation aka propoganda. I do not believe the polls are not stacked. That is a very persuasive psychological tactic "It's just you, no one else".

NY *vomit* is not going to allow dmv renewals as of January without vax & ALL recommended boosters, they are forcing the issue to the extreme.

This politics is much bigger than just the vaccine.
Parents anti CRT are being watched as "terrorists".
Gifted classes are cancelled due to "equity".
Minorities are looking like pawns to politicians to manipulate at will. (Including us). Same rhetoric, champion one issue for each group to buy their cooperation elsewhere.

This is not true. It was reported by lol Hallam, and they removed it and said the information was false. It did not come up at all in a google search last night or today. It may happen in the future, but right now it’s false.
As to those saying 85% of NYers are vaccinated, what does that have to do with vaccine mandates for YOUNG CHILDREN IN SCHOOL? I know many adults who are vaccinated but aren’t vaccinating their kids now. I know many people who were forced to vaccinate for work because they don’t have the luxury of not having a job. Also, as someone else said, only a tiny fraction of US citizens were polled, so how can that possibly represent the majority of the country?
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california2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 10 2021, 10:20 pm
I agree with above person; the methodology is typical of survey studies and is validated by examples like elections; the exact percentages can be incorrect but the broad outlines are generally correct.
And of course, now I can see why no one posted the (extremely easy to find) methodology before me; people aren't interested in actually discussing the methods. In fact, there is no evidence that they excluded Jews, though as 2% of the US population I'm sure we weren't a huge % of the respondents either. Whatever the exact numbers, studies such as these include Jews as "White non Hispanic". And in fact, they mentioned very carefully how they did extra sampling in areas with high vaccine hesitancy and in groups with high vaccine hesitancy.

A more interesting point is that I actually think it's a pretty LOW rate of support for mandates; see the quote below; only 58% support the federal government mandate. Were you guys able to read the results section of the study? Copied here in case helpful


Amid a slew of recent announcements about COVID-19 vaccine requirements, majorities favor requirements for health care workers, school teachers, college students, and federal government employees, but the public is more divided on employer mandates in general and on K-12 schools requiring vaccines for eligible students. More specifically, nearly six in ten (58%) support the new federal government mandate on larger employers to require vaccines or weekly testing for their workers, and nearly eight in ten (78%) support the requirement that these employers offer paid time off for workers to get vaccinated and recover from side effects.
Despite a lukewarm reception for employer COVID-19 vaccine mandates, such requirements do have the potential to further increase vaccine uptake somewhat. Asked what they would do if their employer required them to get vaccinated in order to continue working, about a third of unvaccinated workers say they would be likely to get vaccinated while two-thirds say they would be unlikely to do so (including half who say they would be “very” unlikely). However, when presented with the option to get vaccinated or face weekly testing (an option that larger employers could offer under the Biden plan), most unvaccinated workers (56%) say they would take the weekly testing option while just 12% say they’d get the shot and three in ten say they would leave their job.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:57 am
The Jewish Press


Home News & Views Politics
Health and MedicineCoronavirusNews & ViewsIsraelPolitics
Survey: Majority of Israelis for Severe Sanctions Against Anti-Vaxxers
By David Israel - 5 Heshvan 5782 – October 11, 2021 0



Photo Credit: Olivier Fitoussi/Flash90

Israeli man receives the booster shot of the Pfizer vaccine.

Most Israelis are livid about the minority in their midst who refuse to roll up their sleeves and take the first, second, and third coronavirus vaccine, according to a survey conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) and published on Monday (Stabilizing the Economy and Combating COVID by Imposing Restrictions).

IDI describes itself as an independent center of research and action dedicated to strengthening the foundations of Israeli democracy. It’s generally considered to be a left-leaning think-tank.

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Back to the enraged Israelis: 59% of them support banning the unvaccinated from public areas such as supermarkets and workplaces. 57% want to see them pay personally for their medical treatment (in a country where almost everybody is part of an HMO – DI).

But wait, there’s more: 51% of Israelis want unemployment payments yanked away from the unvaccinated who also refuse to be tested (those tests must be paid for by the unvaccinated unless they are children – DI).

Finally, brace yourselves: 30% of Israelis want unvaccinated individuals who contracted the coronavirus to be denied access to the ECMO machines that pump blood from the body and oxygenates it – allowing the heart and lungs to rest. If a vaccinated patient needs an ECMO, say 30% of survey respondents, he or she goes automatically ahead of the anti-vaxxers.

Ouch.

Incidentally, according to the survey, only a minority of the public thinks Prime Minister Naftali Bennett is waging the struggle against COVID-19 “appropriately.” Also, only a minority of the Israeli public views Bennett’s speech at the United Nations as good or excellent.

Yes, Israeli is a tough room these days.

Among the Jews, the prevailing perception is that the most important issue for the government in the coming year is stabilizing the economy. Among the Arabs, the top issue the government should address is the crime in Arab society.

Identical rates, each slightly less than half of the public, are optimistic about the future of Israel’s national security and the future of Israeli democracy. Meanwhile, a very large majority of the public sees low chances that in the next five years an accord will be signed with the Palestinian Authority.

So, harsh and realistic.

On the other hand, a majority of Israelis think the Abraham Accords have fulfilled their expectations.

Among Israeli Jews, more favor a military attack on Iran to prevent it from going nuclear than those who favor reaching an agreement with the Islamic Republic. Among Israeli Arabs, the distribution of preferences is the other way around: more support the idea of reaching an agreement than wish to “bomb, bomb Iran,” as the late Senator John McCain once put it, to the tune of the Beach Boys’ Barbara Ann (and was chastised at the time, boy, how the world has changed).



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Duff Adler
41m ago

The public doesn't know the half of it, if they did they would even be angrier, forget about the ventilators and ECMO machines, when a relative of mine was recently very sick we found out that in order to receive the life-saving drug "Regen...See more

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noah
1h ago

Due to the enhanced chances of Prion disease in the vaccinated, in the event that any vaccinated person gets dementia, we should just sit her on a curb with a bottle of Pepsi and a sign hanging around her neck which asks her not to be distu...See more

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DFNahariyya
1h ago

Who are these so-called Israeli's, facist propaganda once again

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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 8:00 am
Basically, according to the above article, a large percentage of Israelis are not exactly "live and let live" or "my body, my choice" or "preserve medical freedoms".
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amother
Calendula


 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 8:00 am
E"Y and the US re not the same.
different culturally and in many other ways as well
vast majority of israelis are trained to communal think for better or worse through the IDF
that can be great
as well as detrimental look at Gush Katif...
everything has advantages and disadvantages to different degrees
so ya not apples to sabra fruit Wink
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 8:48 am
amother [ Calendula ] wrote:
E"Y and the US re not the same.
different culturally and in many other ways as well
vast majority of israelis are trained to communal think for better or worse through the IDF
that can be great
as well as detrimental look at Gush Katif...
everything has advantages and disadvantages to different degrees
so ya not apples to sabra fruit Wink


I agree that rugged individualism is part of the American culture but it also appears that part of that is aloofism. We are not going to spin our wheels for the underdog until we are the underdog
Even if kids learn in schools that all White people are evil and aligned with the devil and they owe everything that they have to Black people, I don't think that people actually change their behavior over this.
Yes, some people gave in and got vaccines that they don't want but then they just go on about their business and don't get involved with the issue anymore.
Where are the protests and street marches that I would imagine would be even bigger than for BLM? And even after the George Floyd marches, how many police departments were defunded? Possibly policy training improved but the police sometimes still kill unarmed citizens, at least I think.
Basically what rugged individualism means is that I dealt with NY by moving to Florida so what are you doing?
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