Study shows vaccination and masking don’t work to stop Covid

amother

Almond

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:07 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

I would give them a break if they didn't force me to get injected with. If they dont know 100% what they are doing why are they forcing people to get it or lose their jobs? It doesn't go both ways.

I don't agree with the mandates. But the arguments about the lack of safety and efficacy are hype.
You can find studies and stories online to support any random issue. This is not the way to make a decision. It's not even convincing once you've seen enough of what Google can "prove."

ora_43

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:08 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Now we want to rewrite history...

Sources for any of what you're claiming happened?

With quotes from experts, not just some random dude on twitter, and without qualifications like "against this strain of the virus" or "in initial trials" re: the effectiveness of the vaccine.

wiki

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:12 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Yes, pre-vaccine, at the same time last year, we had lower case rates, hospitalizations and deaths. Doesn't that beg some questions? We haven't ruled out that these more virulent strains aren't driven by the vaccines.

Mangoes and oranges, my dear.

In the USA in places where vaccination rates are high, case rates and hospitalizations and deaths in the past season have been far, far lower than they were last fall.

In the USA in places where vaccination rates are low, case rates and hospitalizations and deaths in the past season have been far, far higher than they were last fall.

LovesHashem

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:26 pm

amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote:

A seatbelt isnt invasive and doesnt include putting experimental drugs in your body so its a false equivalence.

This conversation is about the vaccine effectiveness. Not about if you feel like you have the choice to take it or not in your country.

Don’t add in arguments that aren’t relevant to the OP.

LovesHashem

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:32 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That is exactly the point of this post. The unvaccinated are NOT more likely to be infected. If you believe that it’s because you have been misinformed. This study and other studies are evidence that the vaccinated and the unvaccinated are EQUALLY susceptible to being infected.

Studies show otherwise. Yes vaccinated people can get COVID, but they are less likely to, and will get less of a case and therefore pass on less of the virus.

My doctor told me everyone can pass COVID right now. Everyone is a risk, but some are more than others. She recommended me only meet unvacccinated and unrecovered outdoors to lower the risk.

I have close friends who have not gotten the vaccine and I’m not going to not see them and I’m not going to let a virus ruin my relationships.

So far everyone has been respectful of us and our precautions. Actually on Sukkos we planned to visit family friends in their sukkah who weren’t vaccinated. The day before we were told that multiple people in the family were exposed to someone with corona, they wanted to let us know because they know we have certain precautions. I told them we wouldn’t be coming and thanked them for letting us know in advance, and appreciate how even if they disagree with us, they remain respectful.

amother

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:52 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Do you have any evidence or data to support this claim that the vaccinated are less likely to get Covid or that some people are more of a risk than others?

It’s unbelievable how on this thread alone, after being shown a study that proves the exact opposite, this baseless claim has been repeated so many times.

amother

Camellia

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 12:54 pm

Trigger warning: extreme example comparison.

I think the unvaccinated in the icu's must demand only unvaccinated staff. That would solve problems.

I think the mandate is akin to rape and I am not belittling rape. Rape is forcing something unwanted into your body. So is the mandate. S3 x is wanting something into your body, so is vaccinating when you want to. You cannot undo some std's and you cannot undo vaccine side effects. Both leave the victim traumatized, feeling violated. Rapists might threaten with a knife to a neck, mandates threaten with the money for the roof over your head and food on your table.

These mandates need to be illegal and cancelled. The onus is on them to CONVINCE with proof that the vaccine is good and helpful. Not become mafia.

tp3

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 1:01 pm

amother [ Camellia ] wrote:

I think the unvaccinated in the icu's must demand only unvaccinated staff. That would solve problems.

I think the mandate is akin to rape and I am not belittling rape. Rape is forcing something unwanted into your body. So is the mandate. S3 x is wanting something into your body, so is vaccinating when you want to. You cannot undo some std's and you cannot undo vaccine side effects. Both leave the victim traumatized, feeling violated. Rapists might threaten with a knife to a neck, mandates threaten with the money for the roof over your head and food on your table.

These mandates need to be illegal and cancelled. The onus is on them to CONVINCE with proof that the vaccine is good and helpful. Not become mafia.

And you want people to take you seriously?
That is just awful what you wrote. Awful, stupid, and offensive.

southernbubby

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 1:37 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am not sure what you want people to do. I know some medically fragile people who, by reducing their socializing by only being near vaccinated people, have reduced their risks simply because they are avoiding large crowds. They may indeed resent unvaccinated people because they feel that unvaccinated people are doing nothing to stop the pandemic or prevent needing a bed in the ICU.
I personally don't live in a community where being vaccinated is a key to any special privilege and nobody discusses it unless someone actually does get sick. I don't think that everyone who gets the vaccine deserves the title "pro-vaxer" as if it's something to be ashamed of. You lose our support and for a good reason.
I saw a protest today against Democrats on a street corner here in Florida and there was exactly one protester. I think that if anti vaxers want more support, they need better PR. A WhatsApp group that I am on politely redirected anti-vax material to a different WhatsApp group because people didn't like the approach. You are turning off your audience.

LovesHashem

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 1:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are studies. The study you quoted doesn’t compare the unvaxxed to vaxxed so not sure how the numbers mean anything without a control group or something.

I can look up studies later hopefully.

faigie

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 2:09 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This study documents a hospital outbreak of Covid among staff and patients, 96% of whom were fully vaccinated and all staff wearing full PPE (including N95 masks).

https://www.eurosurveillance.o.....00822

This is scientific proof that vaccinations and masks (hospital grade let alone plain cloth ones) do virtually nothing to prevent the spread of Covid.

It just makes it clear that mandates are purely political, and not science-based at all.

I just read thru the study. Aside from not being written all that well, and at least one crucial mistake that I can see offhand, no one ever said that you won’t get covid after ur vaccinations, only that it will help mitigate the severity of the infection.

southernbubby

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 2:19 pm

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

Many of us were extremely careful and isolated ourselves in our homes for months only to come down with covid. B"H we are ok. But it is noteworthy. So we do not blame the victim who gets it. Or anyone else. Up to Hashem.

True but now there is a vaccine that might save the person's life. Most people are not staying isolated anymore but some people are very limited in what is safe for them and even that can fail.

faigie

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 2:25 pm

southernbubby wrote:

True but now there is a vaccine that might save the person's life. Most people are not staying isolated anymore but some people are very limited in what is safe for them and even that can fail.

Thing is, if a person has three exposures, ie the actual disease, and then both vaccinations, they stand a much better chance if they come down with a variant. It increases ur chances of survival.

DrMom

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 2:32 pm

To calculate the benefits of masking, you'd need to have 2 groups exposed to the same viral load in the same way, except that one group is masked and the other is not.

Additionally, you'd need to design the experiment with all combinations of masked/unmasked groups (C+ people masked, C- people masked; C+ people masked, C- people unmasked, etc.).

You'd also need to split the C- people into vaccinated and unvaccinated, and you'd need to take into account how long ago they were vaccinated.

The situation you described just illustrates that vaccines are not perfect, and masks are not 100% foolproof.

Which we already knew.

southernbubby

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 2:37 pm

faigie wrote:

Thing is, if a person has three exposures, ie the actual disease, and then both vaccinations, they stand a much better chance if they come down with a variant. It increases ur chances of survival.

I hope that I am more immune as a result of both the infection and the vaccine but some people don't survive the initial infection, or possibly the vaccine, as we well know. We have gotten better at predicting risk factors for the disease but need to get better at determining who cannot get vaccinated.

amother

Ballota

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 2:54 pm

I was referring to the efficacy of the measures instituted to mitigate the spread of covid. Everyone we know got it despite extreme safety measures taken; that said, we are grateful we were able to delay getting it as treatments improved B"H.
We were hoping the vax would stop it and it did at least slow it down but now we are hearing about many vaxed friends with covid hopefully stays mild IY"H.

amother

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 5:47 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210702/study-says-vaccinated-people-who-get-covid-carry-less-virus

Shows here how people vaxxed are less likely to get corona and if they do get a lower viral load, which means if they spread corona they spread it less and on a lower level, so those who get it from them will also get less sick.

This is true, with one extremely important caveat. The article references a study in which the participants were tested between December 14, 2020, to April 10, 2021. According to the NY Times (https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/health/delta-variant-covid.amp.html), the first case of Delta reached the US in March and by early April, the rate of those in the US testing positive with the Delta variant was 0.1%. Now, 99% of Covid cases are the Delta variant (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-20/delta-variant-now-fueling-99-of-us-covid-cases).

The article you are basing your claims on is entirely based on outdated information. It is referring to data that pertains to a strain of Covid that no longer exists. It’s been well documented that the Delta variant is vaccine-resistant and that breakthrough cases among the vaccinated are extremely common with this variant.

This explains why there is such a stark difference in the results between the study I posted and the one you posted, as the one I posted was conducted in mid-July when the Delta variant accounted for most of the Covid cases.

It’s time for the media and the government to adjust their narrative to reflect the current data. To be basing their policies and mandates on outdated and no longer relevant information is dishonest and harmful.

amother

Sun, Oct 10 2021, 5:57 pm

faigie wrote:

What is the crucial mistake you found?

When you say “no one ever said…”, are you accounting for the federal government whose mandates give exclusive access to a wide variety of societal activity only to the vaccinated with the reasoning that it is the unvaccinated who are more likely to get and spread Covid? Or the media outlets who continue to repeat these claims? They’ve been circulating misinformation and the majority of the people have accepted it to be true.