Ethical Dilemma with my boss - WWYD?

amother

Catmint

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:44 pm

Say you aren't comfortable with this ultimatum and your raise shouldn't be connected to a trip. Offer to go speak to the head to convince him. See what she says to that.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:44 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The crazy thing is if I would cancel the trip my job would be a whole lot easier! Do I personally have an obligation to the students more than the principal?

I think everyone here agrees that's not the answer, and not a decision you should be making.
I understand that you don't want to go to Head boss - it will jeapordize you're relationship with Principal which is not worth it for you.
Can you go back to Principal and be firm - "I don't think I should be making the decision about trip vs raise. I'd like you to forward my request for a raise to Head. If you can't do it in the next 2 weeks, I see no reason why I shouldn't do it myself."
In general, what's your personality? Why are you scared to be firm with her?

amother

Bluebell

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:45 pm

What she’s doing isn’t right. I had a similar situation where I asked my immediate Manager four certain accommodations (such as starting 20 min later and finishing 20 min later) and he said that the higher ups would not approve which I thought was strange as my work is the type that is not time sensitive. Then in another instance I received a raise that I felt was quite a bit low and wanted to negotiate and again manager said that he is working on it with higher ups. I offered to talk to them directly to plead my case and my bosses almost frantic no made me very suspicious. Ultimately I went to one of the higher ups who never heard about bit and said that no one why would he have a problem with me working different hours. My manager lied through and through. I am hoping that is not the case with you but I would definitely go to a higher level because you can’t even be sure that the principal is properly representing you. Swapping a trip for the students has nothing to do with your salary and comes out of completely different pockets

octopus

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:47 pm

amother [ Catmint ] wrote:

Say you aren't comfortable with this ultimatum and your raise shouldn't be connected to a trip. Offer to go speak to the head to convince him. See what she says to that.

I also disagree with this. Your boss has proven to be a liar and a manipulator. I hope I'm not projecting but I once had a boss like this. Yet she seemed soooo nice. While I would normally say don't go above her , but her actions are so bizarre, I wouldn't trust her for a second. You might make an enemy, but I would deny, deny , deny that you said anything to the big boss.

amother

Maple

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:54 pm

I would go to the big boss and lay it all out, clearly just the facts. I would then request that he not repeat this exchange back to the principal. Let this be the big bosses problem. If he’s also immature and manipulative then you’ll be stuck but hopefully he will be confused and willing to protect you and your relationship with the principal for the students sake and take the hit. He can then figure out how to let the principal know you’re getting a raise. You can lie to preserve Shalom.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:54 pm

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

Also many times spouses weigh in on these issues as it affects family finances

She actually wanted me to make a decision then and there and I told her something doesn't feel straight to me I want to discuss it with DH. (He is very learned and I know she respects him)
His reply was there is no way it is ethical for you to cancel this trip to get a raise and he actually offered to go to a posek to get a halachic ruling which is the only thing she will accept. I haven't got back to her yet on this...

amother

Hunter

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:55 pm

I would not lie and deny
And it’s something that could be easily proved/disproved
Don’t stoop to low level
Or make a whole stressful secret that’s not healthy
I might ask for confidentiality but would never count on it

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 6:57 pm

amother [ Bluebell ] wrote:

My manager lied through and through. I am hoping that is not the case with you but I would definitely go to a higher level because you can’t even be sure that the principal is properly representing you. Swapping a trip for the students has nothing to do with your salary and comes out of completely different pockets

You are so right - unfortunately it isn't the first time.
How is your relationship now with this manager?

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:02 pm

Hard situation.
I would say this isn’t something I’m comfortable with and tell her you have been waiting for a raise for a while and are considering talking to the boss about it. Or that you have made an appointment with the boss. At the same time ..;
Not going behind her back.

amother

Maple

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:02 pm

If you say she respects your husband. I would either call the big boss and explain things, then later on tell her that’s what your husband told you to do (DO NOT tell her or discuss with her again going to big boss, she then can ask you not to and that makes it worse, this way you can play dumb, u don’t need to acknowledge that you know she doesn’t want you talking to him. She’ll be upset and you’ll apologize but hopefully the whole dynamic will be changed).

Or even have your husband call big boss to clarify and explain what’s been happening, emphasizing the need to keep the working relationship etc.

—I’m the last one to involve spouses Babur basing off your last comment I wonder if here it can work—

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:02 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Can you go back to Principal and be firm - "I don't think I should be making the decision about trip vs raise. I'd like you to forward my request for a raise to Head. If you can't do it in the next 2 weeks, I see no reason why I shouldn't do it myself."
In general, what's your personality? Why are you scared to be firm with her?

I think this idea resonates with me - I just don't want to be confrontational. I used to clash terribly with her and really worked on building up a relationship of respect.
Don't forget she is also a principal and Rebbetzen too - whenever I would approach her with complaints on the offensive I always ended up on the defensive, apologizing and excusing myself. I guess that's why she is so successful at her job!
Oh gosh - this makes me sound like such a loser!

Genius

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:06 pm

This definitely stinks. I would tell this to the principal. Tell her you don't think this makes sense and that she either brings you a decent proposal by Monday or whenever you want or you will go to the big boss. The trip has nothing to do with this and should stay out of this conversation. I believe in being straightforward.

amother

Hunter

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:10 pm

You seem committed to getting her permission for moving forward despite her past behavior
Hatzlocha

Yes it can be very challenging to change set dynamics

You have to decide how much you want to keep this job at what cost to you and is it worth it with no raise or if you would look for another job

amother

Maple

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I strongly disagree and think you’ll only be feeding into this by addressing again with her

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:13 pm

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

You seem committed to getting her permission for moving forward despite her past behavior
Hatzlocha

Not quite - I really want to continue with this job without allowing her to manipulate me. The question is how?
If that is impossible I'll leave the job.

amother

Catmint

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Not quite - I really want to continue with this job without allowing her to manipulate me. The question is how?
If that is impossible I'll leave the job.

Why leave without even trying to go straight to the head? If you have nothing to lose just do it.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:16 pm

amother [ Maple ] wrote:

I strongly disagree and think you’ll only be feeding into this by addressing again with her

I think I'll wait to see what the Rav has to say to DH.

Thank you so much to all of you for your thoughts and advice!

amother

Dill

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:20 pm

I would not go behind her back.

In a matter of fact kinda way, let her know that you plan on speaking with the boss.

And then speak to him

Even if she tells you it’s not necessary. Just keep repeating, I need to discuss it with the boss.