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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Ethical Dilemma with my boss - WWYD?
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amother
Bluebell


 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:25 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
You are so right - unfortunately it isn't the first time.
How is your relationship now with this manager?
suffice it to say that he was exposed as a liar and I no longer report to him. Bh!
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amother
Bluebell


 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:29 pm
Op, definitely see what your rav has to say, I would love to hear what he says having been in this similar position in the past. Can you report back please?

In my case I was prepared to leave the company (there were other issues as well) so I had nothing to lose by going to higher ups and Bh it worked out. I would not leave without it’ll trying your luck
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amother
Crystal


 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:43 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The crazy thing is if I would cancel the trip my job would be a whole lot easier! Do I personally have an obligation to the students more than the principal?


Is this even a question?
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amother
Crystal


 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think this idea resonates with me - I just don't want to be confrontational. I used to clash terribly with her and really worked on building up a relationship of respect.
Don't forget she is also a principal and Rebbetzen too - whenever I would approach her with complaints on the offensive I always ended up on the defensive, apologizing and excusing myself. I guess that's why she is so successful at her job!
Oh gosh - this makes me sound like such a loser!


Imo, I think you've tried to work enough with her on this. If you go through her again - and give her a heads up that you're going to the big boss, she's may end up manipulating things with your big boss too. You'll be then in an even more defensive position.

Manipulators make people around them take the fall, while they promote themselves. Do you wish to continue playing her game?
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amother
Crystal


 

Post Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:49 pm
amother [ Dill ] wrote:
I would not go behind her back.

In a matter of fact kinda way, let her know that you plan on speaking with the boss.

And then speak to him

Even if she tells you it’s not necessary. Just keep repeating, I need to discuss it with the boss.


I don't think this is going behind her back. She went to her multiple times, and each time she was turned down or put into an awful position. The principal knows she is not the big boss, and that there are powers above her. Its understood in all job position that people go up the ladder to forward requests and complaints when they can't be resolved on a lower level. The principal is well aware that the hasn't resolved OP's issue here, and she knows there is a boss above her.

OP going to the big boss is just following the chain of the command. If she gives the principal the heads up, and if the principal is the manipulator that OP describes, then she'll make sure she gets to the big boss first, and will protect herself while further hurting OP.
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faigie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 11:01 am
To me, it sounds like she’s awarded for sticking to a certain budget. She knows that u probably will leave without the raise, so she just moves money around in her budget to give to you. If she gives you the trip money, her budget stays the same. Personally, I’d go over her head.
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amother
Pistachio


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 11:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you to all who replied!!!! I really appreciate you all taking the time to weigh in!
I already feel less of an idiot - it's really been eating me up.
The problem with going over her head is that at the end of the day she is the one who hired me and she is the one I have to interact daily with - she isn't stupid either.
This whole issue stems from money - she is extremely cheap and often boasts that she can get away with paying minimum for anything.
I would love to threaten to walk away but am scared she will call my bluff. I really would leave but how can I look for a replacement job without jeopardizing this one?


Your concern that going above her head to get your raise without making you a scapegoat will make working under her awkward at best - is a valid concern. I would be perfectly honest with her and tell her you aren’t comfortable with your salary amount being tied to the school’s spending choices. Tell her you would like to have the big boss weigh in on the situation and invite her to the meeting.
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singsong




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 1:19 pm
Maybe I'm just cynical, but it sounds like she never spoke to the head of the school about this at all. You describe her as being someone who likes to get away with paying as little for things as possible. To me it sounds like your raise may have been approved, but she's too stingy to pay for both and wants to see just how much she can get away with.
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amother
Yolk


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 1:23 pm
Have you ever put your request in writing.
I would email very specific request snd specify date you want response by.
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mommyhood




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 1:30 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
Have you ever put your request in writing.
I would email very specific request snd specify date you want response by.

I also think email is the way to go at this point. Send an email to your boss requesting a raise and copy the head of school. This way there's no question of why you didn't go to your boss first.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:35 pm
So... DH went and spoke to the Rav who told him that halachically I can cancel the trip in order to get my raise. He sort of implied that I shouldn't be "moser nefesh" for this trip.

So so confused.
I really don't feel comfortable taking it away from the students... I am feeling so resentful.
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:37 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So here’s the story (changing some identifying details) I’m employed for years in an expensive private school as program director. My boss – the principal - is also a salaried employee but I report to her. A few years ago I wanted to upgrade some kind of trip we organize and take it up a level. I discussed it with the principal who was fully in agreement and then I spoke to the head of the network who gave me his go ahead. We’ve been doing this extra trip successfully for three years.

I have been working at this job for years with no raise and although the hours and workload has substantially increased I have not been given a raise. 2 years ago I asked the principal to speak to the head and put in a request for one and then covid hit so nothing came of it. I again requested a raise in the summer and at first she told me it was taken care of, a few weeks later she said he wasn’t ok with it and finally she admitted that she hadn’t even broached the topic with him all this time “because others will also start asking for a raise.” I offered to speak to the head myself (she always insisted I go through her) but she told me it would jeopardize all the other funding the school gets.

2 days ago she called me and told me that she really wants to get me this raise, and knows that I deserve it but the head is putting pressure on the school to save money so she doesn’t feel it is correct to ask. BUT she has a preposition; if I will cancel the trip that I added as a treat for the students thereby saving money she will request that the money saved goes towards a raise in salary.

I told her that one has nothing to do with the other – if she feels this treat for the student is too expensive/not justified it is her right as the principal to cancel it and she should go ahead. Besides the head himself had okayed the funding for it! She insisted that it has to be my decision – continue with the trip at the expense of my raise or take it away from the students to go towards my salary.
Something here stinks and I’m not sure what. I feel like I’m in a catch 22 dilemma - Please help me, from an objective point of view, understand what isn’t straight about this? And also how on earth should I proceed?
TIA
(Apologies for the long post - too many details to include!)


Go straight to the top, you should’ve never put her in middle.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:39 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So... DH went and spoke to the Rav who told him that halachically I can cancel the trip in order to get my raise. He sort of implied that I shouldn't be "moser nefesh" for this trip.

So so confused.
I really don't feel comfortable taking it away from the students... I am feeling so resentful.


Hi OP! I've been wondering what ends up happening with this.
Sounds like you got a psak halacha, but do you feel like you got advice?
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:39 pm
mommyhood wrote:
I also think email is the way to go at this point. Send an email to your boss requesting a raise and copy the head of school. This way there's no question of why you didn't go to your boss first.


The principal doesn't work with email - in hindsight I should have gone directly to the head for the raise.
The problem now is if I do it at this stage it is a slap in her face which she will never forget - and also do I just ignore the issue with the trip and act as if it was never brought up?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:44 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The principal doesn't work with email - in hindsight I should have gone directly to the head for the raise.
The problem now is if I do it at this stage it is a slap in her face which she will never forget - and also do I just ignore the issue with the trip and act as if it was never brought up?


You should somehow send her a message that you appreciate her input / assistance with getting a raise and you will be speaking directly to the CEO. Then right away contact the CEO and go from there.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:45 pm
amother [ Lilac ] wrote:
Hi OP! I've been wondering what ends up happening with this.
Sounds like you got a psak halacha, but do you feel like you got advice?


No, not at all! That's my problem.
DH thinks I care way too much and I should just cancel. I told him I'd feel like a horrible person if I'd do that. He also suggested that maybe the principal really meant well when she suggested this.
I disagree strongly but now I'm thinking that maybe she didn't realize how inappropriate it sounds?!
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The principal doesn't work with email - in hindsight I should have gone directly to the head for the raise.
The problem now is if I do it at this stage it is a slap in her face which she will never forget - and also do I just ignore the issue with the trip and act as if it was never brought up?

Is this a heimish operation? I’ve never heard of a school principal not “working with email”.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:53 pm
I’m so sorry you’re in this position, OP. Your supervisor did this intentionally, knowing it puts you in the middle, leaving you the fall guy. No matter what you decide, she wins - either you don’t take the raise, or you do and she doesn’t have to spend any extra money. It’s extremely manipulative and I would bet the principal knows nothing about it. She probably hasn’t even spoke to him yet.

There is no logical connection between this trip and your salary. Stand your ground and go above her head. She’s not treating you with respect. Why should you treat her with respect?
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amother
Yolk


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 5:53 pm
Write an old fashioned letter. With a date you want a response.
Put in a sticky note that if you don’t get response by xx date you will give directly to director.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Oct 12 2021, 6:07 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
I’m so sorry you’re in this position, OP. Your supervisor did this intentionally, knowing it puts you in the middle, leaving you the fall guy. No matter what you decide, she wins - either you don’t take the raise, or you do and she doesn’t have to spend any extra money. It’s extremely manipulative and I would bet the principal knows nothing about it. She probably hasn’t even spoke to him yet.


She told me herself she hasn't brought up this idea with him yet!
I see almost everyone agrees that I should just go and speak directly to the head.
I think I'll speak to my boss and tell her I don't feel comfortable with her suggestion, thank her for the idea (if as DH thinks it is coming from a good place) and tell her I prefer to speak directly to the head about a raise.
If I feel really vindictive I could mention to him her "idea" knowing that after he gave me the go ahead he will be annoyed with her... but I think I should keep quiet for the sake of my future working relationship (and because I tend to be a people's pleaser....)
Is this going to fall flat?

I really, REALLY appreciate all the advice you're all giving! Thank you!
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