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S/O Mommy wars - Need two incomes?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:41 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
Just want to add that the mother is not the default childcare for the family. Families with two working parents are bringing in a joint income that enables the family to pay for childcare. I hate this idea that’s it’s the woman’s job that is automatically worthless if she’s only covering childcare plus a bit more, but it’s a given that the husband should be out earning an income of however much. Women have just as much value and potential as men in the workplace, and there are men who would be happy to take over the domestic responsibilities if needed.

It doesn't have to be an idea, but it IS a fact that if the father of the house is making a nice income, the mother staying home would eliminate a lot of expenses. Or, if you like it better, the father staying home. I'm not particular about who stays home.
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:42 pm
That might be the case in your neighborhood but many neighborhoods do not give us the luxury of not working every hour that we can possibly work- running from carpool drop off to work and straight back to pick up so we dont get a chance to breathe in the middle.
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:43 pm
Do you mind saying which community your from OP? Cuz you're making some real generalizations that actually are not true for a very significant number of ppl here.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:44 pm
groovy1224 wrote:
I think you are misunderstanding how taxes work. On each paycheck, you have FICA taxes (social security and medicare, things like that). Those taxes are basically 7.65% of the first 142K you earn. If you earn more than that, you only pay the medicare portion (1.65%) on the excess.

Then you have federal, state, and sometimes local withholding. And this is where I think you are getting confused. Say you have a combined household income of 150K. Puts you at the 24% federal tax bracket. That doesn't mean that your entire income is taxed at 24%. It's a marginal rate. The first 20K is taxed at 10%, the next 60K at 12%, and so on. 150K does not equal $36,000 in federal withholding. Your effective rate is significantly lower. Same goes for state withholding. And all that is before you take into account any deductions and credits.

Obviously everyone has to take a look at their earning potential before and after taxes and compare that with their expenses as a frum family, but no one should be thinking they only walk away with half their gross pay after taxes. It's just not the case.

I'm not misunderstanding how taxes work.

Right, the wife's income would put her in the marginal rate (assuming the husband is not planning on quitting his job anytime soon). The effective rate does not come into play here.

Also, FICA is taken separately for both the husband and the wife. So the wife DOES pay FICA on her income even if their combined income is over 142K.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:47 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Because in my little world, it's almost impossible to work full time (9 to 5).

Playgroups start at 9:15 or so. The long, long, long playgroups maybe end at 3:30, maybe, maybe 4.
Girls schools start at 9:15 and end at 3:45. My primary boys walked into the door at 1:55.

In other communities I have heard that there is no bussing so mothers are busy with carpools.

There would be a huge amount of juggling necessary in order to work full time, and even so, it would probably be logistically impossible (unless your spouse has a flexible job, etc.).


You’re speaking about very specific communities. I’m guessing Lakewood or Monsey. It doesn’t sound like these communities have the infrastructure to support 2 Full time working Parents. There are many communities who have more support in place (daycare with long hours) or people hire privately (nannies, babysitters) or support each other. I personally couldn't live in a place like you described
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:47 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Do you mind saying which community your from OP? Cuz you're making some real generalizations that actually are not true for a very significant number of ppl here.

I think it's my age rather than the community Smile .

A lot of my assumptions are based on how things were in my time. I'm glad to hear that things have changed!
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 12:48 pm
Monsey non chassidim actually have somewhat decent hours I'm learning for the poster who guessed Monsey.
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groovy1224




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 1:03 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not misunderstanding how taxes work.

Right, the wife's income would put her in the marginal rate (assuming the husband is not planning on quitting his job anytime soon). The effective rate does not come into play here.


Let's use the numbers you were using. You say she could get a job for 30K. Now their combined income is 180K. Before, about 70K of their income was taxed at 22%, now closer to 91K will be taxed at that amount. The last 9,000 will be taxed at 24%. Not the entire 180K. (And not really, because we haven't taken a single deduction yet) Effective rate always comes into play, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

amother [ OP ] wrote:
Also, FICA is taken separately for both the husband and the wife. So the wife DOES pay FICA on her income even if their combined income is over 142K.


Of course, because these are taxes on the individual, not the household. But even so, those taxes are about 7.65%. That's a far cry from the numbers you were using.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 1:07 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think it's my age rather than the community Smile .

A lot of my assumptions are based on how things were in my time. I'm glad to hear that things have changed!


Ooc how old are you?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 1:16 pm
groovy1224 wrote:
Let's use the numbers you were using. You say she could get a job for 30K. Now their combined income is 180K. Before, about 70K of their income was taxed at 22%, now closer to 91K will be taxed at that amount. The last 9,000 will be taxed at 24%. Not the entire 180K. (And not really, because we haven't taken a single deduction yet) Effective rate always comes into play, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Effective rate doesn't come into play because her income is marginal. Marginal means extra - her income is extra. If she wouldn't be working, they would only be taxed on her husband's income. So her income is taxed at 22% for the first $20,000, and 24% for the next $10,000.

groovy1224 wrote:
Of course, because these are taxes on the individual, not the household. But even so, those taxes are about 7.65%. That's a far cry from the numbers you were using.


You forgot to add state and city tax. In New Jersey it would be 6.2% for a combined marginal tax rate of 36 to 38%, and in New York city it would be over 10%, for a marginal tax rate of almost 42% altogether.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 13 2021, 1:18 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
Ooc how old are you?

Just ten years ago I spoke to job placement people and I was told that salary for a secretary with years of experience is $20 an hour (in my area). A lot of things seems to have changed in ten years!!!!!
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