How do kollel wives do it?

amother

Oatmeal

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

many of you are saying hashem provides its all siyata dishmaya but im asking tachlis how do people pay rent, insurance, car insurance, gas, groceries etc

I was on unemployment this summer bc my yeshiva didnt have enough summer cases for any of the therapists. I havent even received a penny from unemployment were literally living penny to penny now until my paycheck comes in next month

There's no magic trick that everyone follows. Everyone has a different way that they work (on the hishtadlus/teva side. It's obviously from Hashem for everyone) and for some it doesn't work. That's the answer.
Some people have family support. Some people are frugal in ways that others wouldn't consider reasonable (like having a family of size X in a home of size Y), or putting a lot of effort into finding good prices or creating a budget with what you have. A lot of men in kollel earn some money in addition to their kollel check-by tutoring, working as a mashgiach on Shabbos, etc. A lot of kollel wives have more than one job, like something they do in the evening for a couple of hours. Many kollel families are able to get a lot of government programs that save them money on groceries and other things. Some kollel wives have a very well-paying job because they thought about all this when they were 18 chose a career path that would fit a kollel lifestyle financially. (That's really the best option, I think, except that it's not always possible. Like, you may determine that being a lawyer or doctor is the best choice, but that doesn't mean you have the time/money for medical school, or are lawyer-smart.)
Hmmm, how else do people cover their expenses? I mean, people can write out their budget for you, but that's not going to HELP because if you can't just copy someone else's life.

amother

Glitter

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We live very frugally. For the first five or six years we rented a small basement that was pretty cheap. Then we moved to a 3 bedroom apartment for 1750 and stayed there for about 7 years until we moved out of town and bought a house for a about 150,000.
Never bought ready made food, not even challah or desserts. Never ate out. Barely ever had cleaning help. Barely ever had evening babysitters. Never went on vacations. Lots of hand me down clothes and only shopped on sale. Never bought $80 dresses or shoes, or even $50. One cell on free lifeline plan, other on a very cheap plan. Shop around for cheap internet and get phone through that, so no phone bill. Also most furniture from people who are giving it away. I don't think I bought any furniture since my wedding except a bunk bed, crib, and a couple bookshelves. Basically save as much as possible and spend as little as possible and earn as much as possible. Whenever my agency didn't give me cases I'd look for another agency. Tutored on the side. My husband does morning kollel, day kollel, and evening kollel. In NY he did tutoring and kashrus and other things also.

amother

Pewter

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:13 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

Can you specify what you do without?

To start: I live in small quarters. I have very little to zero cleaning help. I don't take vacations with my husband. I shop carefully for my children and don't buy things that I may love but are too expensive. I'm careful in the grocery (within reason.)

I hardly splurge on eating out, coffees, manicures etc. Basically, I eliminate these extras. My house is simply furnished. I have one set of linen per bed.

I live respectfully and happily but carefully. My children's shoes were $50 a pair instead of $90. I know some people wouldnt even spend $50.00 - it's hard to quantify a way of life.

What I do know is that I think before I buy. And there are many things I'd love to have or do that I consciously don't spend money on...

Does this make sense?

amother

Charcoal

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:27 pm

I'm a speech therapist in Brooklyn, and my husband learned in kollel for 7 years. We actually managed to save a lot during our kollel years (no family support). I have a few suggestions:

1. You really need to see if you can work more hours. I have always worked Fridays, and the extra hours really do add up (assuming $180 per Friday x 4 Fridays per month= another $720 per month. That can make a dent in paying one of your monthly bills).
Are you sure you can't work afternoons? I have friends/family members in Far Rockaway, and some of them definitely work afternoons. You may have to ask around and do a lot of research to find a babysitter, but it exists.
And if afternoons really are not an option, can you do some extra cases in the evening? I have always done evening cases (either the student came to me or we did it on zoom when remote therapy was allowed).
And what about Sundays? Does your agency have a center/clinic that is open on Sundays?
Look, I'm not saying that it's easy or fun to work so much. It isn't. It's very, very hard. But adding
more hours a week can really make a difference in your monthly budget.

2. Does your husband receive a kollel paycheck? My husband always learned in kollelim that paid.

3. Can your husband take on any side jobs? My husband had early morning, evening, and Shabbos jobs. They didn't all pay that much, but it all added up. It was not an easy schedule, but that is how we paid the bills and saved.

4. You really need to live very, very simply. We lived in a tiny $1000 basement. I'm not saying you should move, but I know kollel couples in Far Rockaway who live in basements for less than $2000.

It's not that I don't have emunah/bitachon, but I'm not a big believer in the concept that Hashem makes miracles and rains money down.

If you want to know tachlis how we paid the bills, it was very hard work, crazy schedules, and very frugal living

amother

Sienna

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:37 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Yes , interesting

My husband and I both work and I spend alot less on shoes 15, 20 $
Never bought furniture before , everything from giveaways
No extras whatsoever, I litterally can't think of 1 thing extra I spend on.

At the end of the day basic life cost money?!

amother

Bellflower

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:52 pm

I supported us with DH in kollel for 6 years with not a penny of help from parents.
My parents didn't let me start dating until I had a degree. So I was working making money from day 1, with health insurance covered. I worked like a dog those years. 9-5 and 9-2 Fridays with an hour commute each way. We found an apartment for much less that was a little away from the "heart" of town. We also spent barely any money on anything. Didn't buy any furniture, rarely bought new clothes.
We were actually putting money into savings the first couple of years.

Like others said, the expectations of those in kollel are so much lower, we didn't have a feeling of "needing" things just because others had them

amother

Clear

Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

im in my cfy I cant leave this placement
60$ sounds like a lot but it really isnt
I live in far rockaway and even in queens rent is at least 2000$

fridays wouldnt make a difference. school is only 3 hours
I cant work more hours bc there are no afternoon babysitters by me
when I was pregnant I worked 9-5 everyday and then drove 2 hours home in traffic

I cut my hours this year once I had my baby

I think you’re not seeing the whole picture here. Make a budget- does what you make monthly cover? These past few months weren’t normal in the sense that you were unemployed and didn’t receive benefits, and had a baby. Dont panic. Enjoy your baby.
Keep doing what you’re doing, push off big expenses. Your pay rate will go up Iyh. Next year your baby will possibly have more options with long hours and won’t be as young. Things change.

That being said 2 things in this post that I noticed because they very much apply to me to- living in an expensive place is very very hard. Also because it means that the ppl around you are usually more well off, long term this mag be something to consider.

The other thing is that I found by only working when ‘it’s worth it’ I’m coming home with much less a month. When I worked Friday, Thursday being cancelled didn’t mean a 1/4 of my paycheck for the week was gone, I had time to do some makeup sessions…I basically prioritized working as long as I can be (semi) human and my baby has good care. I lost sight of this recently after my second baby Bh and my pockets feel it. I’m slowly going to build back up as the opportunities open up.

naturalmom5

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 12:28 am

amother [ Hyacinth ] wrote:

But how!!! It's so frustrating when ppl say it's from hashem!! Of course it's all from Hashem but how how how did He send the money! I think it would give a lot more chizzuk if ppl specified where the money actually came from in the end

I’d could write for 10 pages

My husband was very upset he couldn’t get me a birthday present
Walking home from the shul he finds a 100$ bill on a dead end street

Our car was getting a brake job
All our cards were maxed out, the shop said we need to leave car there and come back with money
Suddenly another yid pays our bill and gives us his name and number to repay him
We searched high and low in the tri state area and could never find him

About 10 years ago, we had no where to go fir Pesach
We’re both BT with no family at all
One day by Seder my husband is looking in his laptop case
He discovered a pocket he didn’t know existed in the side pouch and he finds an envelope with a thousand dollars
A friend of his was doing a program and gave us a rate of 2000 for the whole time if my husband drove up a van of equipment to and from hotel

Our car insurance was about to be canceled
He finds an envelope with exact amount in a file cabinet we never use

Last zman his rosh kollel at night gives him an extra 300 of the blue

One time a Collel he sometimes learns at got a shipment of several hundred boxes of seforim for an otzar
They asked the guys to help unload boxes and only my husband came
A few weeks later the RK insisted on giving him 500

My husband is the Rebbe from Lublin in the Journeys song, but I still work like a dog Sad

keym

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 8:20 am

The kollel families that I know work together to save every penny and allow the wife to work as much as possible.
1 brother lives in a 1 bedroom apartment with 3 kids because rent is $850 including utilities. They don't want to move because then now they make do with just 1 car.
Another relative lives in a 3 bedroom basement but much further away location than they'd prefer so they pay $1250 a month.
The parents work together. I know a family that the mother works her 8 hours from 7:30-3:30. Her husband davens before she leaves. They send the kids to babysitters and playgroups only 9:30-2 so they find on quite the cheaper end. 3 kids is only $1000 a month. So mommy works a full 8 hour day, Totty is watching the kids for almost half of it.
And in the summer bain hazmanim, Totty does "Totty camp" for 4 weeks instead of day camp.

That kind of thing

amother

Lightblue

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 8:33 am

Dh learned in kollel for 6 years. I worked part time for most of it and more time for some. My job wasn’t lucrative at all. We had zero support from either side. How did we do it? I honestly don’t know as the numbers don’t add up. We also saved bh a large amount for a down payment. First of all things were cheaper 10 years ago. We wouldn’t be able to do it now. We lived very frugally and were always trying to save. I don’t remember feeling deprived at all though. We lived in a one bedroom with small children and our mindset was simple. We were on programs which was helpful. Our whole budget was very simplistic and neat. Hashem really helps and if I told you how much $ I made you would be scratching your head.

Chickensoupprof

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 8:51 am

The kollel wives I know (most of my friends and one SIL) work and study together, sometimes some rich person is paying their rent.
Sometimes the avreich himself is doing some work in kodesh. My friend from Gateshead says in her family her husband is with 7 years the longest in kollel from all her sisters who married kollel avreichim. She tells most of them quit learning after 3 years. She has one brother who is a dayan and he is the longest in learning for the rest... it's really like you learn for 3 years and then you go to work she tells me. It also depends if you are in UK, Israel or US or somewhere in Europe. Amsterdam, Gibraltar, and Antwerp have kollel avreichim.
In Amsterdam there is this thing that the kollel couples are doing kiruv and bring people closer to yiddishkeit lots of people go from traditional to proper orthodox because of them. It is also an expensive community in Amsterdam than you have like the big kollel communities like Gateshead, Lakewood and also in EY (don't know which) where I think things are different. My husband's friend got a coupon for a new suit and a new borselino once in kollel in israel like those things.

amother

Currant

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 9:15 am

OP I feel like I could relate to you a little bit because I live in an expensive area too. It's hard for me to see my friends much bigger apartments in Lakewood for 2/3 of the price!

How we do it -

I have a good job. Mostly everyone around me works full days and not as secretaries. It's encouraged in our community to get an education for a well paying job to support your husband.

I don't have parental help in the sense that they give me a check but they are supporting me in a little ways. I'm still on the phone plan, my car is on their insurance, and I'm on their health insurance until 26.

We live very simply. While in other places every kollel wife is walking around with a doona, here it's only a handful. Some people have newer cars but it's SO normal to drive a clunker (as we do). We don't spend a lot on clothing at all. The most with it people here shop on Shein lol. I'm sure I could think of more examples but it's really just a type. It could be hard to live frugally unless you live somewhere like this. Spending $50 on shoes is not considered living simply around here.

If you can keep your taxable income low with parsonage (by teaching kodesh in a school) then you can still qualify for food stamps and Medicaid so that's helpful. A lot of people here work for the DOE or larger companies so there's all the benefits included with those.

People here work very full time and it's normal to send to a very full day playgroup. A regular playgroup ends at 4 and even then some babysitters pick up. I actually don't know anyone that doesn't work on Fridays here so that would help too.

I do think that hourly therapists have it the worst. No benefits, no time off. The only thing that's good about it is the flexibility.

When I was barely making enough to live on, every dollar was needed. If there was a being on time to seder bonus of $100 a month we made sure to get that. My husband got every bonus there was Smile

. Now that he got into the kollel part of the Yeshiva (about 3 years in) we get a 10k kollel check! It was raised from 6k, it's the most exciting news!

I'm for sure not thinking of enough examples but bH it really works out. How we are going to buy a house only Hashem knows but right now it's not something that we feel we should worry about.

bruriyah

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 10:27 am

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

Bottom line: don’t try to crunch the numbers or figure it out. Kollel is למעלה מן הטבע and it only works because we get loads of Siyata Dishmaya!
Signed,
A Kollel wife of almost 3 decades
And a daughter of a Kollel avreich

You sound very proud of your accomplishments and I admire you for achieving your goals. But whether or not you actually put the numbers on paper and crunch them or not, the numbers must work out. No one here is so special that the laws of the universe are being suspended for them.

amother

Sienna

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 10:30 am

bruriyah wrote:

Right I agree
Also I work as school bookkeeper in a big school
The kollel families pay less than 1/3 of the
Regular families
I look at it that the other paying families are really part of these men's learning too

Mommyg8

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 10:39 am

bruriyah wrote:

I'm a numbers person, and generally I would agree with you. Except that I saw too many times with my own eyes, that it.... really does work (for many). I have heard gedolim say that there is a special siyata dishmaya for a family in kollel. I can't explain what I see, and it just doesn't make sense to me, but I do see it.

mra01385

Fri, Oct 15 2021, 10:52 am

Firstly, I wanted to say that Parnassah is 100% from hashem. No matter if one is learning in kollel or working. We are just doing our hishtadlus the way we feel is right. Look at all the stimulus checks now that everyone is getting. That is really from hashem.
Secondly, In a house with one income the only difference is if a wife works rather than the husband is that the wife still has most of house and childcare on her shoulders even when she is pregnant and taking care of babies.
Thirdly, How do the wives make money when they take off for maternity leave? Also, many kollel wives are working very hard at their jobs, then coming home to take care of kids and house. How do they have the energy to do all this especially with no cleaning help and no husband help if the husband is learning from morning til night. Also, how and when do ladies tutor or work at night if they have small kids or even a little older kids at home?

Last edited by mra01385 on Fri, Oct 15 2021, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total