How do kollel wives do it?

amother

Oldlace

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 3:54 am

DH was in kollel full time for 10+ years and has continued part time for another 6 so far ka"h.

We moved to Israel after a year of marriage, so insurance and tuition is next to nothing but food is expensive and the cost of living is high.

I have always worked at least one full time job, often more than one. My current job is a very high level position and although the salary is laughable on American standards, it's considered very high on Israeli standards (so high that I lose a lot of it in taxes of course).

DH always tutored during night seder or during second seder and he joins every extra kollel - for example on Purim night or motzaei shabbos.

We sold credit card points for years (until we needed to get approved a mortgage).

We buy almost all of our food from sales - they have local sales where you can pre-order for cheaper.

We hardly ever buy clothing for ourselves - only when we absolutely need it, like I gained weight or DH's suit is threadbare. We try to get hand me downs for our kids or we buy very basic Children's Place clothing.

We almost never go out to eat. I actually can't remember the last time DH and I went to a restaurant - it was probably a few years pre-Covid. If we buy pizza, it's a big deal and happens maybe 3 times a year. If I go to Yerushalayim, I like to buy myself a 5 shekel iced coffee and it's a big treat.

I bought one sheitel since we got married and it was second hand. I got another sheitel as a hand me down from a relative who was giving it away. By the way, no one can tell and both look great B"H.

Somehow we saved/borrowed enough money to buy an apartment in a cheaper area, after 15 years of marriage. Our parents did not support us in kollel, but they did give us some money towards the down payment - less than half the down payment but still very helpful.

Once we bought the apt, our mortgage was about half of what we paid in rent so even though we still have to pay back the gemach what we borrowed for the down payment, it's manageable.

DH still learns first seder and has an afternoon/night job for an American company.

If you crunch the numbers, it still doesn't make sense. Hashem has made it work until now and I hope he continues to do so.

amother

Mulberry

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 9:15 am

op, I agree with you that to say "hashem is in charge...etc" doesnt answer about where ppl have $ to pay for everything.

and to those who say $ "just appeared" bec they had bitachoon, great, but miracles do NOT happen for the average kollel man or rav with bitachon, just look at all the appeals for ppl who need $ who are in kollel or in chinuch or even the working poor.

hashem decides certain ppl will be poor (assuming they do hishtadlus) and will need tzedeka but He doesnt just pop $ out miraculously and hopefully a gezeira will change for those families to have $

how do kollel wives working as secretaries buy homes(my relatives did) while poor workingmiddle class cant afford to?

well, many are getting help from parents and can put aside for downpayment and then buy in cheaper areas etc but also kollel families and families in chinuch get food boxes, sometimes clothing etc before yom tov and so many things that middle class poor have to pay for ...which ads up(im not jealous)

and #1 thing kollel and poorer families who get government programs save on is tuition. Middle class families are paying so much more tuition which enables some kollel families to pay a mortgage while struggling middle class cant afford it

I have sibilings in kollel and I wish for them to get any help they can...im not jealous despite the fact that I work longer hrs than my sil but $ doesnt grow on trees and my 3 sibilings are very poor and dont own houses...but one sibiling is relying on my 80 yr old dad who shleps with his bad foot to his minimum wage job to help this sibiling pay expenses...hashem doesnt do miracles regularly for those who have bitachon...

lets not ignore the fact that many of these families are getting a lot of help/$ from tzedeka campaigns and hashem didnt do a miracle to provide $

im not bashing kollel at all as I am happy if kollel ppl or...get help but I hate it when ppl act like "regular miracles occur for the average kollel families everyday"....not true...look at all tzedaka appeals...

op im sorry you are struggling...most ppl will not share their secrets about $...but I know its a big struggle until you get your full certification etc...hopefully after you get all your hrs etc you will have more opportunities...plus your dh hopefully will be contributing as well...im sorry you are struggling right now...its hard

amother

Pewter

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 9:32 am

amother [ Mulberry ] wrote:

You do realize that many kollel people fall right into the category of working middle class that you do, right? All of my and my husband's siblings who are in kollel have hardworking wives....they aren't on programs and don't get all of these freebies everyone seems to think we get. When I say money comes from Hashem I don't mean I'm wealthy. I mean what I say...money comes from Him.

honey bunny

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 9:47 am

dena613 wrote:

Teaching Torah? Lilmod uLELAMEID!!! That's a huge zechus!
Umelamdei tinokos kekochvei hashamayim!

Even teaching math, ELA, science to frum boys- I think that's tremendous that they have a ben Torah as a teacher and role model.

Teaching nonJewish subjects to nonJewish people?
He's supporting his family.

Bh the first category. I need to remind myself what a zechus it is.
It's really such a struggle bc in seminary you learn about how important limod hatorah is and I find alot of girls, myself included, do not respect a man who is also working.

I think this has a lot to do with the shidduch crisis.
Girls and boys are taught that there's no other way to live except kollel. Boys stay in learning, never learn skills to work. Girls kill themselves to get degrees and their homes (some, not all) fall apart because of the social pressure to remain in kollel. Or... the only girls getting redt a shidduch are those whose parents are willing to support which puts an unfair expectation on middle class families to support their married son in laws if they want their daughter to get married.

Listen I believe it works, I live it everyday bhhhh but for someone who isn't on that level you can't force yourself to be a "kollel wife" if you're really not.

amother

Plum

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 6:44 pm

honey bunny wrote:

I have a few bils in kollel 15 yrs +. My sisters work HARD. They don't respect their husbands they cant stand them. How can a man watch his wife breaking, his children not have what they need, his house fall apart, and not get a job??? What a chassid shoteh.

My husband works and I cannot be prouder. He is our man, caring for his wife and family the way they need to be cared for.

I'm so sorry for your husband that you dont appreciate him for who he is and are still pining for seminary fairytales.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 6:59 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

This is not typical of kollel men and I know many.

amother

Caramel

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 7:22 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

BTW I don't think people are on a higher level necessarily because they are in kollel. Nobody can judge anyone's level except Hashem. Nobody really knows what's going on in someone's life and why they choose a certain lifestyle or need to change it. It's a superficial way of categorizing people and does a disservice to those who feel peer pressure to live a lifestyle that doesn't work for them.

It actually says something like this at the end of the mesillas yesharim. I need to find a sefer to quote.... but it made me feel so much better cuz I'm also one of those that thought DH would learn for many years and he didn't. He also doesn't make a mint so it's not like we're rich either.... we're just plain working people.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 7:23 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

I'm a kollel wife who still pinches myself that we're going on 9 years in kollel iyH. I've never been supported and didn't get married with a nest egg. I also don't have a degree.

How I do it?

A huge, huge dose of siyatta dishmaya, crazy strong desire to make this happen and frugal living.

I live in small quarters (hoping to move soon, please Hashem) with a number of children kah. I work two jobs that thankfully allow me to still be home with my children in the afternoon. Between my salaries and my husband kollel checks we're managing. The only gvt. program we use is Jersey Care for my kids.

Right now our rent is relatively low. Daycare is also pretty low since I work in the morning and evenings. But expenses add up and I thank Hashem every day that this continues to work. When it stops working, my husband will start working Smile

. If I have to live carefully, I'm glad it's because my husband is learning. It also helps a lot to be surrounded by people in the same boat - family, friends, neighbors.

And honestly, I give myself big pats on the back! I'm so proud of myself that I work hard, give my children a joyous, happy home and even manage through difficult pregnancies. It's a zechus that I don't take for granted. And just like many middle class families there are times when we are tighter than others.

And you deserve those pats on the back! I would never be able to manage all that and still have a happy, joyous home.

I think there are personality factors involved too, and everyone has to know themselves and what their limits are. Just because someone else can manage doesn’t mean you can or are expected to do the same.

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 7:36 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

It goes beyond personality and being able to manage. Sometimes events happen in people's lives that forces them along a different path than they had planned or wanted to follow. Or you can handle it but turns out your husband can't. Bottom line, we don't really know what Hashem has planned for us.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 7:45 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

I don’t think that’s a stira to what I said.
There can be many different reasons why a certain lifestyle doesn’t work out for you. None of them mean there’s something wrong with you or that you failed.

I’m Lubavitch, where shlichus is idealized in much the same way that kollel is in other communities (as in, shidduch questions revolve around whether he’s a shlichus type or not). And my husband and I both got married wanting shlichus very badly. It didn’t work out for us, and I’ve come to accept that Hashem had a different shlichus in mind for me.

amother

Firethorn

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 8:34 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

I'm a speech therapist in Brooklyn, and my husband learned in kollel for 7 years. We actually managed to save a lot during our kollel years (no family support). I have a few suggestions:

1. You really need to see if you can work more hours. I have always worked Fridays, and the extra hours really do add up (assuming $180 per Friday x 4 Fridays per month= another $720 per month. That can make a dent in paying one of your monthly bills).
Are you sure you can't work afternoons? I have friends/family members in Far Rockaway, and some of them definitely work afternoons. You may have to ask around and do a lot of research to find a babysitter, but it exists.
And if afternoons really are not an option, can you do some extra cases in the evening? I have always done evening cases (either the student came to me or we did it on zoom when remote therapy was allowed).
And what about Sundays? Does your agency have a center/clinic that is open on Sundays?
Look, I'm not saying that it's easy or fun to work so much. It isn't. It's very, very hard. But adding
more hours a week can really make a difference in your monthly budget.

2. Does your husband receive a kollel paycheck? My husband always learned in kollelim that paid.

3. Can your husband take on any side jobs? My husband had early morning, evening, and Shabbos jobs. They didn't all pay that much, but it all added up. It was not an easy schedule, but that is how we paid the bills and saved.

4. You really need to live very, very simply. We lived in a tiny $1000 basement. I'm not saying you should move, but I know kollel couples in Far Rockaway who live in basements for less than $2000.

It's not that I don't have emunah/bitachon, but I'm not a big believer in the concept that Hashem makes miracles and rains money down.

If you want to know tachlis how we paid the bills, it was very hard work, crazy schedules, and very frugal living

It seems like a lot of kollel wives work part-time. I think the real answer is that kollel families get a lot of benefits from the community, their families, and the government.

amother

Midnight

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 8:46 pm

My husband was in kollel for about 6 years. During that time, I earned a decent income- enough for us to not be eligible for programs and even save a bit before our kids were older and expenses grew. I worked 2-3 jobs- about 10am-3pm (in lakewood this is the standard because it’s also revolves around day care hours) and then a few hours a night after bedtime. Dh was great with frugality- he did (still does) the grocery shopping and household shopping and also managed to use credit cards wisely for points/cash. I got married at 21 and by then had my degree plus savings from working while in college. That combined with our wedding gifts and what we were able to save allowed us to buy a cute little 1250sf starter home about 4 years in, which cut our expenses a bit (rent was more than the mortgage) and will hopefully help us buy a bigger home eventually.
Dh did not leave kollel for financial reasons- it was because he couldn’t watch me work so hard anymore. Someone mentioned guilt- I did feel guilty for not pushing it longer but I also felt proud and grateful to have a husband who cared for my well-being. Honestly, it’s a bigger sacrifice for me now when he leaves to night seder after a long work-day plus commute when before he learned locally and was always around. Financially, our expenses grew as our kids grew older so it’s hard to say if we could have still made it on my income alone. Ironically I lost my well paying job due to Covid and haven’t made as much since.