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Batyah85




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 17 2021, 2:07 pm
I was curious to hear the different viewpoints: What are the pros and cons of joining "Anglo" communities in Israel? I would love to hear from people who currently live in an Anglo community- Do the kids grow up able to linguistically and culturally adapt to being "Israeli?" If they don't, do you find that ok? Looking forward to generating some conversation on this.
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amother
Topaz


 

Post Sun, Oct 17 2021, 9:03 pm
If you come with kids above 6 or 7 they will probably feel more comfortable if there's a good number of English speaking kids around.
We moved to RBS when our kids were school age, 15 years ago.
Yes, most of their friends are Anglo but they're totally integrated into Israeli life.
2 are in the army, all of them speak perfect Hebrew.
One finished university already.
They have friends who were born here, to Anglo families, who are just fine as well.
My son has a friend who came after us, who married a total Israeli whose parents don't speak a word of English.
I think places like RBS get a bad rap, but all the kids I know are pretty integrated.

As the parents, you will probably feel more comfortable if you have Anglo friends, Anglo doctors, Anglo service people.
I still have plenty of Israeli neighbors who help us read bills and things like that.
My Hebrew was always pretty good and I can get by almost anywhere.

People who don't live in Anglo communities may tell you that the kids never integrate but that's not been my experience.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Sun, Oct 17 2021, 9:13 pm
The pros:

1. Immigrants to any country have kids who do better when the parents live among members of their own culture. When the parents have a support system, the children grow up with less stress. This is true for Anglos in Israel, Turkish immigrants to Germany, and Korean immigrants to the United States.
2. A community with many olim generally has a good ulpan system, and schools and municipal services are geared to the needs of olim.

The cons:

1. You can live in Israel for years without learning Hebrew.
2. If you live among people who like to reminisce about how everything was better in the old country, and especially if they can afford to travel back regularly, they never make the mental shift, and the kids feel deprived for living in Israel.

I think it's easy enough to take advantage of life in an Anglo enclave while still integrating.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 17 2021, 11:28 pm
There’s also the issue or the differences religiously. If you are are American OOT yeshivish or just plain frum you will need to choose between being dati leumi or chareidi.

There’s little grey.

In places with lot so of anglos they have created more ground in middle and its not so black and white.
C
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 17 2021, 11:43 pm
We live in Jerusalem in a very mixed anglo+sabra community. It wasn't like this when we first moved here, there were hardly any other anglos, but now there's a lot. My kids (all born here) were entirely English-speaking for the first few years of their lives. Now that they're fluently bilingual, and attended regular Israeli schools, they still tend to gravitate towards fellow anglos, especially during their kindergarten-elementary school years.

Now my older ones have mostly non-anglo friends and they feel fully comfortable and immersed in Israeli society. I'm really glad they had such a mixed early childhood, and not exclusively anglo or purely Israeli. It's important for them to feel at ease in Hebrew situations and when dealing with strong sabra personalities.

When I made aliyah (30+ years ago) there were not that many anglos, especially not my age. I've always latched on to those I could find and had closer friendships with fellow anglos, but still lived in, and feel at ease in, a very Israeli society.

My personal opinion is that while heavily anglo communities can be great for the parents, it's less ideal for the children. This will be their forever home and it's important that they can integrate.
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amother
Topaz


 

Post Mon, Oct 18 2021, 12:35 am
LovesHashem wrote:
There’s also the issue or the differences religiously. If you are are American OOT yeshivish or just plain frum you will need to choose between being dati leumi or chareidi.

There’s little grey.

In places with lot so of anglos they have created more ground in middle and its not so black and white.
C

That's absolutely true.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 18 2021, 12:38 am
amother [ Topaz ] wrote:
That's absolutely true.


And even if you are willing to drop everything to fit into a new social ideal, it may be too hard of a transition for your kids to do. They may end up feeling resentful.....
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 18 2021, 2:14 am
We started in a heavily 'anglo' community, moved to a community with very very few English speakers, and are now in a community where there are a bunch of other English-speaking families but those are still definitely the minority. I like our current situation the most.

Caveat: I came to Israel before university, dh grew up here, and our kids were born here. So what works for us is going to be pretty different than what would work for a family making aliyah with teenagers.

Heavily 'anglo' community - just in general it wasn't quite culturally or linguistically Israeli and I didn't like that. Plus, I felt like it was a real obstacle to learning proper Hebrew (mostly for me, but for the kids too, too much 'heblish' and limited vocabulary).

OTOH community #2 was tough in the other direction, virtually nobody from a really similar cultural background.

Current community - the English-speaking community is small enough that it's really friendly and speaking English creates an instant bond with people. And OTOH, still feel like I'm living in Israel. So I'm pretty happy.
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Batyah85




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 7:06 pm
I really appreciate everyone's responses. A lot of very encouraging responses too! We will be joining a small anglo community when we make aliyah and my hope is that our aliyah will be successful, iyh! I figure the first couple years will be a learning curve linguistically and culturally for all of us- but the comforts of being in a small likeminded community will help us settle in and initially make friends. It is my hope that my kids will be motivated/self motivated to practice, learn, and pick up on Hebrew by being in school and society at large.
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amother
Burntblack


 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:44 pm
Batyah85 wrote:
I really appreciate everyone's responses. A lot of very encouraging responses too! We will be joining a small anglo community when we make aliyah and my hope is that our aliyah will be successful, iyh! I figure the first couple years will be a learning curve linguistically and culturally for all of us- but the comforts of being in a small likeminded community will help us settle in and initially make friends. It is my hope that my kids will be motivated/self motivated to practice, learn, and pick up on Hebrew by being in school and society at large.
Can I ask what small anglo community you are joining?
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Success10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 11:30 pm
I'm in a very non-Anglo area. And my kids are very integrated, which opens up more doors regarding social life, schooling, jobs and marriage. But it's hard if you need a kehillah for yourself and your kids. It's hard on my kids to be the odd ones out, with chutznick parents and few relatives.

I agree with LovesHashem that long-term you need to figure out where you will fit in to Israeli society religiously.
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Batyah85




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 21 2021, 12:27 pm
I agree with LovesHashem that long-term you need to figure out where you will fit in to Israeli society religiously.


Ok- responding to the above. My thought is as more anglos come in with the open minded yeshivish-lite whatever you want to call it- way of life- that will lesson the need to "figure out" where we fit in religiously. And there are alot of anglos coming with this viewpoint-- ready to create new communities Smile
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 21 2021, 12:33 pm
Batyah85 wrote:
I agree with LovesHashem that long-term you need to figure out where you will fit in to Israeli society religiously.


Ok- responding to the above. My thought is as more anglos come in with the open minded yeshivish-lite whatever you want to call it- way of life- that will lesson the need to "figure out" where we fit in religiously. And there are alot of anglos coming with this viewpoint-- ready to create new communities Smile


A new community is nice and all. But what schools is going to accept your kids? You need a LOT of people to make a school happen, and someone needs to take initiative. I mean if you are planning on opening a school, good for you. But it’s not an easy task.

Once your kids are out of school honestly it doesn’t matter where you fit religiously much at all.

That’s why I said Anglo places like RBS have made a new community and there ARE schools that are for open minded folk. But if you move outside an Anglo bubble you are forced to choose Dati Leumi or Chareidi and there’s no gray really at all.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 21 2021, 1:54 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
. But if you move outside an Anglo bubble you are forced to choose Dati Leumi or Chareidi and there’s no gray really at all.

There is some gray area. The Torani schools are different from the mainstream DL schools and once the kids reach seventh grade there's definitely more options among the chativot/tichonim that fill that gap.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 22 2021, 12:24 am
Teomima wrote:
There is some gray area. The Torani schools are different from the mainstream DL schools and once the kids reach seventh grade there's definitely more options among the chativot/tichonim that fill that gap.


Can you explain what Torani schools look like? Do kids dress more chareidi or DL? Do they do shirut leumi or go to the army? Do they stand for sirens? Do they celebrate Yom Haatzmaut or say Hallel on it? What is their hashkafah? Are children allowed smartphones and movies? Is there rules about the dress?

Is it something someone JPF or OOT yeshivish would find to their standards, or would they feel their child is being taught they are allowed to do thing and wear things that they don't agree with?

I have nothing against DL/Torani - I myself have young children, and live in an somewhat anglo area, I am not sure where we will end up in the long run and what we will do for school yet.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 22 2021, 12:34 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Can you explain what Torani schools look like? Do kids dress more chareidi or DL? Do they do shirut leumi or go to the army? Do they stand for sirens? Do they celebrate Yom Haatzmaut or say Hallel on it? What is their hashkafah? Are children allowed smartphones and movies? Is there rules about the dress?

Is it something someone JPF or OOT yeshivish would find to their standards, or would they feel their child is being taught they are allowed to do thing and wear things that they don't agree with?

I have nothing against DL/Torani - I myself have young children, and live in an somewhat anglo area, I am not sure where we will end up in the long run and what we will do for school yet.

Honestly I can't answer most of your questions, at least regarding elementary school. I sent my children to a regular mamad DL yesodi. But once they hit chativot everything changes. Children from mamad schools feed into a wide variety of schools, some of which have stricter dress codes, some less so. Some of which (attempt to) require girls to go to sherut leumi, some that don't. I think overall if the Zionist aspect bothers you then yes, stick to charedi schools.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 22 2021, 12:36 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Can you explain what Torani schools look like? Do kids dress more chareidi or DL? Do they do shirut leumi or go to the army? Do they stand for sirens? Do they celebrate Yom Haatzmaut or say Hallel on it? What is their hashkafah? Are children allowed smartphones and movies? Is there rules about the dress?

Is it something someone JPF or OOT yeshivish would find to their standards, or would they feel their child is being taught they are allowed to do thing and wear things that they don't agree with?

I have nothing against DL/Torani - I myself have young children, and live in an somewhat anglo area, I am not sure where we will end up in the long run and what we will do for school yet.

In my experience (full disclosure: my kids don't attend these schools), there is a range.

We have family members who are more US-yeshivish-types and they send their kids to schools like this. In their case, the dress code was somewhere in between charedi and DL, and yes, of course there were rules about dress. No smartphones. I have never hung out with them on Yom HaAtzmaut/Yom HaZikaron, so I can't tell you what they do. I think their girls all did Sherut Leumi and the boys did either regular military service or they served in a hesder unit.
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amother
Canary


 

Post Fri, Oct 22 2021, 12:37 am
I agree with Teomima. If you are anti-zionist, then stay with the charedi schools. Almost all Torani schools are quite zionist.

That said, the more RW torani schools are very strict with dress code, mixing of genders, etc. I don't think anyone would get kicked out for having a smartphone though - I assume most have.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 22 2021, 12:56 am
DrMom wrote:
In my experience (full disclosure: my kids don't attend these schools), there is a range.

We have family members who are more US-yeshivish-types and they send their kids to schools like this. In their case, the dress code was somewhere in between charedi and DL, and yes, of course there were rules about dress. No smartphones. I have never hung out with them on Yom HaAtzmaut/Yom HaZikaron, so I can't tell you what they do. I think their girls all did Sherut Leumi and the boys did either regular military service or they served in a hesder unit.


Most OOT yeshivish would not do army service.

It's closer to a DL hashkafah. Which proves my point that you WILL have to lean in Chareidi or DL. I don't think a chareidi community and shul would be accepting and open to people sending to Torani schools.
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Success10




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 22 2021, 1:05 am
OP is right that with the influx of JPF olim, things will start to change. But they've still sort of invented their own little "Chareidi-lite" bubble within general Israeli society. The question still remains: how do those kids fare in the long run?

I'm just giving my own guess here, I think the kids will be ok. If there's a strong enough kehillah of like-minded people, then they will find whom to socialize with. Schools to attend. Whom to date and marry.

RBS is filled with messed up kids, no one can deny that. But who says it's a result of being misfits to society? Maybe just Americans come with more emotional baggage in general, especially the ones who chose to leave the Old Country behind, and that just trickled down to the next generation. Just food for thought.
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