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Chava- she sinned, why name after her??
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:16 am
Chava- she sinned and we have labor pains because of her. Why name your child this?
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:17 am
Can you find someone in tanach that never sinned?
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:17 am
A lot of people in the Tanach sinned and we still name after them.

Everybody sins.
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:19 am
Chava did the right thing.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:20 am
You really wanna get into this?

Penina’s children died because she was mean to her co-wife

Rachel died in childbirth because her father cursed her

Tamar (daughter of David) was raped by her brother

Esther lived a lonely life of isolation as the wife to a non-Jewish tyrant

Aharon let the Jewish people make the egel hazahav and two of his sons died because they were drunk

Moshe “sinned” so badly HaShem didn’t let him into Eretz Yisrael
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 10:21 am
Interestingly, the Kli Yakar says that before the sin, her name was Chaya (Ki Hi Haysah Aim Kol Chai) and Chava was after the sin.

Ain Tzaddik B'aretz asher yaaseh tov v'lo yechtah. There's hardly anyone free of sin.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 3:22 pm
Odom named her Chava AFTER the chait. He didn't name her Misa, he named her Chava because he still recognized that her essence was giving life. Maybe Chayalle can elaborate on the Kli Yakar. There might be differences in nuance but the bottom line is, it's a name that's affirming.

I could stop there.
But isn't it amazing, how redemption is always possible? How eventually they continued to build together, even under compromised conditions?
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amother




Feverfew
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 3:38 pm
I have wondered this about certain names - my certain fascination is Elimelech which is a beautiful name. But at the end of the day the answer is these people were imperfect tzadikim. There is nobody perfect to name after.
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amother




Pear
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 3:45 pm
It's brought down that everyone sinned except four people. I think it was
Amram, Yishai, Binyamin, I forgot the fourth.
Amram the father of Moshe Rabbeinu
Yishai the father of Dovid Hamelech
Binyamin from the shevatim
I forgot the fourth.

maybe more people should name after these tzadikim that never sinned.

They say everyone who ever lived has sinned besides these four people.

edited to add: I googled it and the fourth was Kilav (son of Dovid HaMelech
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 3:59 pm
The translation of chet is to miss the target. It's erring, mistake, flaw. Evil is another thing.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 4:07 pm
No one names their kid Adam (the Hebrew version, obviously tons use the English name.)
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Raindropsonrose




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 4:11 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
You really wanna get into this?

Penina’s children died because she was mean to her co-wife

Rachel died in childbirth because her father cursed her

Tamar (daughter of David) was raped by her brother

Esther lived a lonely life of isolation as the wife to a non-Jewish tyrant

Aharon let the Jewish people make the egel hazahav and two of his sons died because they were drunk

Moshe “sinned” so badly HaShem didn’t let him into Eretz Yisrael


How on earth is being taped in a list of sins?
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penguin




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 4:14 pm
From Hidabroot (also mentioned in many other places)

כללי - שאל את הרב
איך יתכן שהיו אנשים שלא חטאו מעולם?

ל' אדר א' התשע"ו | 10.03.16 00:00
שאלה

רשום שאין צדיק שלא יחטא, אפילו אדם הראשון נברא טהור ללא יצר הרע אך הצליחו להחטיאו. אז כיצד הצליחו 4 אנשים להיכנס לגן עדן ללא חטא אחד כל ימי חייהם (ישי, בנימין...)? תודה
תשובה

שלום רב,

אכן זו שאלה טובה איך אמרו חז"ל במסכת שבת (דף נה עמוד ב) ארבעה מתו בעטיו של נחש (ופירש רש"י: בעצתו של נחש שהשיא לחוה ולא בחטא אחר שלא חטאו) ואלו הן: בנימין בן יעקב, ועמרם אבי משה, וישי אבי דוד, וכלאב בן דוד, והרי נאמר במגילת קהלת (פרק ז' פסוק כ) "כי אדם אין צדיק בארץ אשר יעשה טוב ולא יחטא".

וכבר עמדו בשאלה זו התוספות מסכת שבת (שם), ותירצו, שהפסוק הנ"ל מדבר על רוב בני אדם, אולם יכול להיות מיעוט שלא חטא כלל מעולם (וע"ע מה שכתבו בזה בחידושי רבינו המאירי, ומהרש"א, ופני יהושע, ואהבת איתן על העין יעקב שם, ופירוש יפה תואר על המדרש ויקרא רבה פרשה יד פ"ה, ד"ה אפילו).

בברכה,

הלל מאירס
Loose translation:

How is it possible that 4 people are mentioned as never sinning when Kohelet says there is no tzaddik in the world that does only good and never sins.
Per Tosfos Shabbos, the posuk is talking about most people, but there can be the rare individual who never sinned (& he references several mefarshim who discuss it further)
Anyhow the 4th is Kilav son of Dovid haMelech. I don't think we know much about him though.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 4:16 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
No one names their kid Adam (the Hebrew version, obviously tons use the English name.)


I know people named Odom.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 4:17 pm
Raindropsonrose wrote:
How on earth is being taped in a list of sins?


Actually, these aren't sins but tragic circumstances you don't want to lay on a child. I mean, if someone dies young it's traditional to add a name after a generation. Yet we do use the names. That's what that list represents.
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GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 4:20 pm
I once heard that after women die they go to Chava to complain about what she did, and she says I sinned once, how many times did you sin?
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amother




Phlox
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 5:05 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Interestingly, the Kli Yakar says that before the sin, her name was Chaya (Ki Hi Haysah Aim Kol Chai) and Chava was after the sin.

Ain Tzaddik B'aretz asher yaaseh tov v'lo yechtah. There's hardly anyone free of sin.



Yes my name is chaya and I have a daughter chava. We asked a shayla before naming her because we heard of this (ended up being that it was ok)
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 5:06 pm
Raindropsonrose wrote:
How on earth is being taped in a list of sins?


Like PinkFridge said, this list was more of “people with life circumstances one might not wish on their child”, not specifically sins.
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amother




Silver
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 5:46 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
No one names their kid Adam (the Hebrew version, obviously tons use the English name.)


My brother in law is Adam for both his Hebrew and English names.
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CPenzias




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Oct 19 2021, 7:08 pm
Hey! My name is Chava. It means mother of all living things. I'm proud of my name and it's the name I use, even in the secular world!
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